The Sonic Center
Welcome Center => News and Updates => Topic started by: Thorn on November 03, 2011, 10:04:06 am
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In the interest of getting charts created sooner rather than later, I am posing a few questions about the rules and brackets for Generations competition (not the 3DS version yet, of course).
- Will we mimic the leaderboards and disallow skills, will we allow all or most skills, or will we have charts for both methods?
- Will we track 30 Second Trials, which are simply small portions of the full-level time attacks?
- If we allow skills, will we make separate charts for using the skill earned for beating the game? (You can say what it is in your answer, but since this post is on the main page, I'm avoiding spoilers in the off chance that somebody doesn't know about it.)
- To what extent will we track challenges (i.e. will we just track times, or also rings when applicable)?
If you can think of anything else that could be up for debate, ask about it.
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imo, allow skills, they're fun :P I can't think of any skills off the top of my head that would need to be disallowed (except maybe Time Brake? I haven't actually tried that one). As for 30-second trials, I don't really see the point. It's the first 30 seconds of a TA. Also, disagree with separate charts for Super Sonic, since he pretty much sucks.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
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I'm pretty sure there's a skill called last chance where you will restart with 10 rings. If I'm right then surely that should be disallowed for the rings division imo.
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Why? Pausing and retrying a stage isn't exactly hard.
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No but it seems really dumb to do that just for another 10 rings and I discussed it with SonicAD on IRC and I'm pretty sure he agreed with me >_>
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I agree with flying fox on this one. It's definitely pretty stupid to just get another 10 rings added to your total. If you think about it, it's somewhat like the SADX rule, starting a level w/rings(carried over from Adventure Mode) isn't allowed in RA in the charts, so I think it ought to be applied here, and, as I said before, it is kind of pointless to easily start with 10 rings, especially if it must be unlocked to use it. That is a little... averting, in my opinion. It would piss me off, too, if I just started the game AND want to compete in it.
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If you think about it, it's somewhat like the SADX rule, starting a level w/rings(carried over from Adventure Mode) isn't allowed in RA in the charts,
No, it really isn't. 1. You're getting the rings in an entirely different level, and 2. That gives an infinite source.
It would piss me off, too, if I just started the game AND want to compete in it.
Okay, then. Let's just ban all skills. Actually, better yet, let's only have a chart for Green Hill Classic, as that's the only thing you can play when you first start the game.
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Calm down, calm down (jeez...)
Skills don't really seem to be that big of a deal (except for Last Chance on RA's) since most of them have to do with helping the player out a little when they mess up (except for the one that allows you to boost earlier).
Also, could one submit to Sonic 1 divisions with the in-game version? I noticed that it had a higher framerate than usual, but I don't compete on that game so I wouldn't know how it'll affect stuff.
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... the 10 rings on restart skill is not a big deal. Just pause and restart. There's no reason to disallow it.
The SADX rule is completely irrelevant for the reasons Miles said.
It would piss me off, too, if I just started the game AND want to compete in it.
Well then, you'd hate SSR and SBK.
edit: also, it's weird you guys think this skill is a big deal but Ring Time isn't.
btw, the skill we're talking about is Safety Net, not Last Chance. Last Chance gives you an extra life if you game over.
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I can't imagine that something that'd improve scores but is annoying would be disallowed. I'm led to think about S3&K RAs wherein you need to have beaten the level before and left any flag boxes up so you can get those rings for the Act 2 RA: Still legal on all charts, small flat bonus required for ring scores, requires set-up. Side note of Holy Shit That's Annoying, especially for anyone who wants to compete in S3&K on console. Just sayin'.
It's limited, it doesn't reduce the competitiveness of the stat, it increases maximum scores. It should certainly be allowed.
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In regards to whether or not we should allow skills, I think we should given 1 reason: Doppleganger challenges are just the full act with the restriction of not having any skills. So if we restricted it for acts then they would be equally comparable which is... kinda pointless
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Yeah, most skills are pretty fun imo and add a whole new way for speedrunning. I wouldn't mind having separate charts. I agree with most of what Paraxade said except I would like Super Sonic even if he's useless :P and Time Brake is really useless from what I see, slow down everything including the timer itself <_< Last chance is pointless as well.
As for the Doppleganger challenges, you can look into not considering them since it's pretty much a copy of the main stage, as someone said.
EDIT: Fixed typo about Time Brake.
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Time Brake slows down the timer too.
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As for the Doppleganger challenges, you can look into not considering them since it's pretty much a copy of the main stage, as someone said.
Or add the Doppelganger challenges as no skill charts and allow skills for main acts? It seems convenient, anyway.
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The problem with that is if I'm gonna bother doing a run with no skills, I'd wanna have it on the leaderboards, so I'd wanna do it in ranking attack. I dunno. Maybe we should just have "no skills" charts and put in the rules that you're allowed to submit stats from the doppelganger challenges in the no skills charts.
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- To what extent will we track challenges (i.e. will we just track times, or also rings when applicable)?
I was told by AD when I asked him were we to track rings in challenges he said to assume so as to keep track of strats. Not to mention we do track rings in SU even though it doesn't at the level select or whatever you call it. [/list]
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Time Brake slows down the timer too.
Oops! typo on my part, fixed <_< wouldn't make sense to call it useless if it doesn't affect the timer though lol and yeah, the no skills chart sounds like a good idea.
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I thought RAing was in essence gathering all the rings naturally lying around in a stage, not gathering all the rings in a stage + an extra 10 that the game just gives you. But I can't think of an identical situation that's happened before (Especially since SatSR doesn't have ring charts)
Also I'm pretty sure there's some skills that would make at least a slight difference. Aren't there speedup skills? Endless boost, faster wall jumping, elemental shields, etc.
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i dunno. on the one hand, i still think there's no reason to disallow the 10 ring restart thing, and don't get why it's generating so much discussion... on the other hand, there's no reason to disallow ring time either, and I REAAAALLY don't want to do RAs with ring time. So you guys do what you want.
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I thought RAing was in essence gathering all the rings naturally lying around in a stage, not gathering all the rings in a stage + an extra 10 that the game just gives you. But I can't think of an identical situation that's happened before (Especially since SatSR doesn't have ring charts)
Also I'm pretty sure there's some skills that would make at least a slight difference. Aren't there speedup skills? Endless boost, faster wall jumping, elemental shields, etc.
Another thing: it's like in the GG game where having a ring count as a multiple of 10 nets you extra rings via signpost. Not directly, but that's what it made me think of.
Nothing identical though, no, not so far as I'm aware. That's why it's causing more talk: new concept, new rule for the ages.
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I agree with tracking both "skill" and "no skills" separately, but if that ends up being impossible, skills should be allowed because they add a lot of variety. About the famous "MASSIVE SPOILER!!!11!" thing, let's give him a place: even if he sucks at gameplay, he's still Super Sonic.
About tracking side missions: everything (time, score and rings) that's suitable for competition should be there except when the layout is the same as the regular level.
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I say, have seperate charts for skills, allow SS, disalow the 10 rings skill for ring runs, because, its like, If you allow it, then everyone will do it, making it a mandatory item for ring runs, so its just an extra thing you have to do before each ring run, and, one less item you can use.
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You could use the same logic for banning Speed Up in TAs. >_>
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but you could also use the same logic to ban Ring Time...!
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Yeah, Ring Time sucks. :( I just see absolutely no reason why it and Safety Net should be banned.
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I got bored of reading but Time Break is fucking OP as hell.
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i don't think time brake is much of a big deal honestly. in most cases classic has much much more useful skills than time brake (like the elemental shields). time brake will make it easier to optimize, sure, but at the cost of being able to use other skills that can actually save a lot of time, plus whoever decides to use it is gonna find competing to be so tedious. <_<
lightning shield saves like 20 seconds in crisis city for example.
so i dunno. it's definitely a skill that should've had limited uses, so i'm not opposed to banning it, but i'm not opposed to leaving it unbanned either as using it means you'll be at a disadvantage. either's fine with me.
what else needs to be determined before we can get these charts up? I wanna compete :P
edit: also... has anyone shown that there is even one level that can be done faster with super sonic than without? classic SS's only advantage is the very slightly higher jump, which lightning shield makes moot... modern SS might be more interesting, but I still doubt he's worth it. if it turns out it's faster not to go SS in most levels then it's gonna be stupid. especially if you can go faster than SS without skills (as then SS charts would be "turn on super sonic then TA the level without ever actually using him").
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I tested out SS a bit in both, in Classic it didn't seem to make too much difference. Modern it didn't really seem to make too much difference either, you could probably get better skills instead of just blowing it all on that.
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I say have 1 "No Super Sonic" and 1 "Super Sonic" and leave it at that, other Skills are fine since you can custom-combind.
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Super Sonic is useless anyway so there's no real point.
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No point banning super sonic, I didn't notice any significant benefits and like someone else said, you'd be better off spending points on other skills. We definitely need to have seperate boards for skills and no skills, since they'll make such a difference. There's a list of skills here if anyone's interested: http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/627224-sonic-generations/faqs/63262. Stop debating and make the charts!!!
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Making charts specifically for skills and no skills is stupid and just means everyone will have to do everything twice.
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*HAVE* to?
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If they want to compete, then yes.
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Well I want to compete on a FEW maps. haven't got time to do everything. does everyone just compete on the game as a whole? in that case you gotta decide on skills or no skills, or both but keep the charts completely seperate so people don't "have" to do everything. If it had to be one or the other I don't think I could decide
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Solution: One set of charts with skills allowed. PROBLEM SOLVED.
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Skills/no skills are actually pretty different. On the modern side Seaside Hill for example is very different with endless boost than without. Also Planet Wisp has a huge shortcut that you need skills enabled to use. On the classic side, elemental shields are huge in basically every level. So I disagree that it's just doing the same thing twice and I'm all for separate skills/no skills charts, especially since a lot of people are going to want to do no skills runs considering the leaderboards don't allow skills.
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I completely agree with RPG, we should only have one set of charts because otherwise everyone would have to do each level twice if they want to compete.
Though while we're at it, we'd better get rid of the Tails/Knuckles charts in S2/S3&K.
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Saying 'everyone' 'has' to do every map skills and no skills is rubbish, I can't be the only one who just likes to do a few maps?? Umbreons argument is sound, however. Keep em seperate, keep the rankings completely seperate, THEN the problem's solved, surely
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There aren't separate charts for Sonic06 for using those stupid emerald fragments/no using those stupid emerald fragments which are basically skills and completely change the way the levels play, so why bother for Generations?
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Because Generations has leaderboards that disallow skills which means a ton of people are going to be doing serious attempts at competing without skills?
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A BLOO BLOO BLOO
Also implying online leaderboards are more important than TSC's
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Which is more important is irrelevant. You can't dispute what he's saying is correct
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No but it seems really dumb to do that just for another 10 rings and I discussed it with SonicAD on IRC and I'm pretty sure he agreed with me >_>
Sonic Triple Trouble. Sonic 1 GG. You've dealt with it before, deal with it again.
I say, have seperate charts for skills, allow SS, disalow the 10 rings skill for ring runs, because, its like, If you allow it, then everyone will do it, making it a mandatory item for ring runs, so its just an extra thing you have to do before each ring run, and, one less item you can use.
Well then, i sure hope you don't complain about having to collect rings in a ring attack(!)
Seriously though, it has precedent on this site before, and as previous posters have said, just Start>Restart. That seems like a fairly simple thing to do, rather than dying 3 times (S1GG) or having to finish a previous level with X amount of ring (STT).
As for the Ring Time Skill, it sounds like a way to stop the charts having everyone maxing the levels. However, judging by all your reactions to it, it also sounds like it would discourage competition. I'll leave this one to admins.
Now for the Skills v No Skills charts:
IT'S CALLED FREESTYLE FOR A REASON
Seriously, have the initial time/score charts for no skills, and the freestyle chart of any combination of the skills. People shouldn't have to play time attack the same level with the same character in two different ways unless they want to. Also RPG, any discussion point raising S06 is retarded, because those charts are absolutely terrible as it is.
I agree with flying fox on this one. It's definitely pretty stupid to just get another 10 rings added to your total. If you think about it, it's somewhat like the SADX rule, starting a level w/rings(carried over from Adventure Mode) isn't allowed in RA in the charts, so I think it ought to be applied here, and, as I said before, it is kind of pointless to easily start with 10 rings, especially if it must be unlocked to use it. That is a little... averting, in my opinion. It would piss me off, too, if I just started the game AND want to compete in it.
You can't with S06, Sonic Unleashed AND Sonic Colours (just to name a few). In fact, you pretty much have to play the game a bit before you can properly compete, which actually makes sense. Ring Attacks aren't actually something someone can do on their first playthrough either. If they do, they'll either miss certain tricks, or miss certain areas.
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WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, THE SONIC06 CHARTS ARE A TOWERING BASTION OF ORDER.
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WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, THE SONIC06 CHARTS ARE A TOWERING BASTION OF ORDER.
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5749/nobro.gif)
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WELL PLAYED
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No but it seems really dumb to do that just for another 10 rings and I discussed it with SonicAD on IRC and I'm pretty sure he agreed with me >_>
Sonic Triple Trouble. Sonic 1 GG. You've dealt with it before, deal with it again.
In S1GG you're starting off with 0 rings and you have to finish the act with x0 rings to get another 10 rings from the signpost. In STT yes you die at the signpost at the right time so you restart the act with 50 rings. The point I'm trying to make here is that in neither of those games are you just pausing the game and going to restart so that you can get another 10 rings. That was what seemed really dumb to me! If people want it allowed then fine, I only wanted to point it out because I would like to start raing this game since I'll have some spare time soon.
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As someone who will actually play this game, I can tell you my opinion. Have separated charts for both skills and no skills like Unleashed have separated charts for the DLC stages, this way you'll compete on whatever you like without worrying about not being on the top of the charts just because you don't want to play everything again.
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maybe make a poll... i'm not too fussed though really, someone just make a decision and i think people will deal with it. i will anyway
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As someone who will actually play this game, I can tell you my opinion. Have separated charts for both skills and no skills like Unleashed have separated charts for the DLC stages, this way you'll compete on whatever you like without worrying about not being on the top of the charts just because you don't want to play everything again.
making an entire game for separate skills/no skills charts is stupid. unleashed only has a separate game for DLC charts so people can stand a chance competing in the main game without spending a ton of money on DLC. you've got everything you need to compete with and without skills in the package you already paid for with generations.
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Not that I'll ever play this game, but I reckon it'd be a mistake to exclude one or the other.
Sounds like the skills are basically equivalent to having a second playable character, for example Blaze in Sonic Rush. The competition would have been a lot less interesting if there had only been one set of charts in that game. Super Sonic in Sonic Colours is another good example.
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So there's no way to not piss someone off, I would prefer separated categories but on the same chart, I only said that(the idea on my last post) because I can't think of any other solution to this discussion that makes everyone get what they want. If you're good with skills then you'll get a championship, if you're good without skills then you'll get one too, there would be no need to play every stage with and without skills to get a good ranking. Also, I don't care about championships(just in case of someone missing the point of my argument). I don't care if it ends on entirely separated game charts or just different divisions for the same game, which I do prefer(just clarifying because my last post didn't left this clear), I only want the option of playing without skills at no cost on the rankings of each stage.
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On a related tangent, exactly what are the charts going to be?
Times is a given. Scores, unless I'm mistaken, are just a duplicate of times and aren't needed? Then there's Rings, and are we going to track rings for the challenges as well as the acts or not? The game doesn't save your rings stats like it does for Times+Score, but it does still tell you when you get a higher amount than on a previous run. Challenges only save times, like bosses. Boss rings are pointless as there is an infinite source. Anything else?
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I can't see any reason why rings can't be tracked for challenges. In games like Unleashed the game doesn't save your rings either but we still track those. All you have to do is just check your ring amount before you hit the signpost. As for bosses I believe there are only two that aren't infinite which are Death Egg Robot and Perfect Chaos.
What I want to know is will we be tracking just the normal mode bosses or will we include hard mode bosses as well?
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Scores, unless I'm mistaken, are just a duplicate of times and aren't needed?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Score is basically Time Bonus + Ring Bonus. There is no score increase for enemy kills or anything like that.
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Scores, unless I'm mistaken, are just a duplicate of times and aren't needed?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Score is basically Time Bonus + Ring Bonus. There is no score increase for enemy kills or anything like that.
Yes, but with that, it becomes "Grab as many rings before time - for highest score!" And that's mostly how score charts work, unless they're broken levels.
I can't see any reason why rings can't be tracked for challenges. In games like Unleashed the game doesn't save your rings either but we still track those. All you have to do is just check your ring amount before you hit the signpost. As for bosses I believe there are only two that aren't infinite which are Death Egg Robot and Perfect Chaos.
What I want to know is will we be tracking just the normal mode bosses or will we include hard mode bosses as well?
I'm just going to throw this on a post, even though i've said this in the chat. The way they should work is 'default' settings. By default it's what the game throws you into before you change the difficulty settings. Having charts for both normal and hard is feasible, but you'd have to make sure that the levels are different enough in strategy rather than longer because of X amount of hits. Otherwise you're just doubling up a chart, one longer than the other.
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I'm pretty sure Perfect Chaos hard sends you in a completely different area for one hit. Can't say the same for Death Egg Robot though. I'd need someone to confirm it though >_>
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Oh, I was also wondering what the deal is with PC vs Console versions. I've asked about 4 other PC players and none of them seem to be able to perform the superspeed glitch properly, so I'm guessing it's a version difference.
I'm assuming it's not a significant enough difference to consider the two versions seperate games, but I thought I may as well just ask. It will kinda suck not being able to get anywhere near any of the classic sonic times because of version :/
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Oh, I was also wondering what the deal is with PC vs Console versions. I've asked about 4 other PC players and none of them seem to be able to perform the superspeed glitch properly, so I'm guessing it's a version difference.
I can pull it off consistently in one area on the PC version, and everywhere else I fail at it. Even though I'm doing literally the exact same thing hundreds of times.
I don't know what's up with it.
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I can pull it off consistently in one area on the PC version, and everywhere else I fail at it. Even though I'm doing literally the exact same thing hundreds of times.
I don't know what's up with it.
It seems to work wherever it feels like it on PC. Some places I get it 100%, some places 0%.
And I know it's not me, because I switched over to the 360 demo and got it 100% everywhere.
Oh well. Bleh.
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The bosses have slight differences on hard, but its mostly just a little more health or a slightly different attack pattern, Perfect Chaos being the only exception, as mentioned, as he sends you into a completely different area.
When I am inevitably bored later I'll draft up some charts, and then they can be pruned where necessary. Also I could be wrong but I dont think ring bonus factors into your score; when you finish a level and get a rank below A, the game tells you how far you were away from getting the next rank in terms of time, not score. I guess it would be a fairly easy thing to test though, later on Ill go finish GH1 twice with as close to the same time as possible, and Ill get hit right at the end on one run.
Also a potential solution to this skills/no skills malarky; allow skills for the standard levels, and just track the doppelganger challenges as well. That way skills and no skills are both tracked, and both have their times saved in different locations for easy checking. Plus, online scores would just be submitted to the doppleganger level for the appropriate act as it'd be essentially the same thing.
Thoughts?
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^ I think it makes more sense to just label the no skills charts "no skills" and and allow submissions from either rankings mode or doppelganger challenges (or normal mode with all skills turned off I guess). Otherwise it'd be a little confusing where to submit. It's the exact same thing either way really, the only difference is what we're calling it (and I think this way makes more sense).
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Yeah that makes more sense and is easier to work out where to submit too!
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Going back to the Ring Charts and Safety Net, Is 10 more rings really that much of a deal? Yeah you have to restart but you can get back into the game in a matter of seconds. I don't see what's wrong with that really. IMO it won't slow gameplay down that much since you could do it right at the start then just carry on as normal.
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Also a potential solution to this skills/no skills malarky; allow skills for the standard levels, and just track the doppelganger challenges as well. That way skills and no skills are both tracked, and both have their times saved in different locations for easy checking. Plus, online scores would just be submitted to the doppleganger level for the appropriate act as it'd be essentially the same thing.
Thoughts?
I liked your idea, this seems a very appropriate way of naming the charts, because as Paraxade said, it'll avoid confusion of where to submit. I hope everyone agree with this.
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Also I feel it worth pointing out that you don't have lives in Challenges so you can die/retart 5478357092 times should you so wish.
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Also yeah, I don't see why we wouldn't want to track Hard bosses.
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I'm just going to throw this on a post, even though i've said this in the chat. The way they should work is 'default' settings. By default it's what the game throws you into before you change the difficulty settings. Having charts for both normal and hard is feasible, but you'd have to make sure that the levels are different enough in strategy rather than longer because of X amount of hits. Otherwise you're just doubling up a chart, one longer than the other.
I'm pretty sure that in Death Egg Robot hard mode the layout of the mines and switches are in different locations. I can't remember the others I could look into it later when I have some spare time.
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Also I feel it worth pointing out that you don't have lives in Challenges so you can die/retart 5478357092 times should you so wish.
You have infinite lives in Online Mode too. I agree with calling the charts "No Skills"; putting them under the Doppelganger challenge is stupid because no one (sane) is going to actually going to use the Doppelganger challenge for them. >_>
And yeah, have charts for both regular and Hard bosses.
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I am going to use the doppelganger charts for no skills because fuck connecting my 360 to xbox live to use the online rankings, and this way my times for skills (acts) and no skills (doppelgangers) are saved in separate places. Stupid? I THINK NOT.
Also enjoy this wall of text of charts:
Or not
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what's with the challenges? Isn't there 5 each for classic and modern? You have some challenges listed for just classic and some listed for just modern.
Also, it'd be neat if we could format the charts in a way so we can get classic/modern totals instead of skills/no skills totals. Aside from those things, looks good.
edit: also about the challenges, we need challenge rings as well, unless we decided we're not tracking those
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I left out the doppelganger challenges, and challenges are included in the rings section.
And yeah it's not formatted to perfection yet, I was just typing it up so we can see whats needed and then adjust it accordingly.
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I am going to use the doppelganger charts for no skills because fuck connecting my 360 to xbox live to use the online rankings, and this way my times for skills (acts) and no skills (doppelgangers) are saved in separate places. Stupid? I THINK NOT.
Man, you're such a whiny little shit. :( It's sad.
Personally I think there should be ring charts for the bosses without infinite sources... Though I guess that would only be Perfect Chaos and Death Egg Robot (I think?) so whatever. >_>
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1/10 troll harder next time
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Rings
Chemical Plant Challenge 1 - Modern
Rooftop Run Challenge 5 - Classic
One Ring Challenges.
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Ill remove those momentarilly; i was too lazy to look up which ones they were when i typed out that wall of text
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So how do scores really work for this game?
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It's a combination of time and rings. Enemies don't count for anything, it appears.
(Oh dear, this is going to be fun... you set off my IRC highlight.)
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(Oh dear, this is going to be fun... you set off my IRC highlight.)
Quick, keep posting!
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I just want to know because I only played the demo.
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Test
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Also something that should be brought up: Will the demo be allowed for submissions to GH Time and Rings?
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I hope not. I want to get a ps3 to play the full game.
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If it was clear that there was no difference between the level in the demo and the level in the finished game, I dont see why not, but there'd need to be a general consensus on this first.
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The latest demo (Late 2011) is the one that is used in the Full Game--The only thing(s) that have changed are the Red Rings.
The Sonic Boom demo (Mid-2011) shouldn't be allowed since although the layout hasn't changed (much..) it has faster Spin-Dash Rev. and other exploits.
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meh. still highly highly disagree with putting no skills charts with missions, since it devalues those charts, but especially if they're gonna be labelled green hill 1, 2, etc, because if I want to submit stats I got from rankings mode then how the hell do I know where to submit? i get that it's easier to set up the charts this way, but at the cost of making the charts worse, more confusing and more difficult to compete on? plus if i'm coming to tsc casually i'm probably just going to submit my rankings modes stats under times. i'm not going to think to check under missions. if we ARE tracking doppelgangers, then why don't we just track no skills instead? they are the EXACT SAME CHARTS, except less confusing.
i'd propose setting them up something like this:
Times:
Green Hill 1: Skills/No Skills
Green Hill 2: Skills/No Skills
Chemical Plant 1: Skills/No Skills
Chemical Plant 2: Skills/No Skills
etc.
missions being the same as they are now except without doppelgangers being included in the list.
i think it makes way more sense like this. :/ i mean it's the EXACT SAME CHARTS, just being labelled in a way that makes WAY more sense to anyone coming in from the leaderboards and/or wanting to compete without skills. i don't even care about the totals, personally. i'd rather have the charts set up like this than have classic/modern totals.
also, in terms of the "since when do the official leaderboards matter for TSC" argument, let me just throw out - Sonic 4, Super Sonic charts.
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^It does in fact. And i'm going to quote you on something you said which actually raises a pretty strong point:
why can't we just label it in a way that makes more sense to people coming in from the leaderboards?
So basically, you'd just be removing the doppleganger missions, and don't say having missing mission numbers would make the charts look messy. Because (http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_adventure_2_b/times) we've (http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_and_the_secret_rings/scores) done it (http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_rivals_2/times) before. (http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_rush_adventure/extra)
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Something I think should be added onto this topic here for whomever ends up making the charts; the general consensus seems to be that Ring charts for the challenge levels are competitivly valid and wanted (with the exception of the two that Groudon pointed out, and the invinicibility challenge (CP5-C).
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Do we really need score charts, seeing as they are pretty much time + rings.
Except for Casino Night, unless were actually going to make charts for the stage.
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Casino Night is DLC, and pinball, and potentially infinite.
Also score has been pretty much time+rings in a lot of things anyway, there's no real reason to not track it.
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Category: Times
Divisions: Total, Classic, Modern
Levels:
Total
Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Sky Sanctuary
Speed Highway
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Crisis City
Rooftop Run
Planet Wisp
Category: Ranking Attack
Divisions: Total, Classic, Modern,
Levels:
Total
Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Sky Sanctuary
Speed Highway
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Crisis City
Rooftop Run
Planet Wisp
Category: Rings
Divisions: Total, Classic, Modern
Levels:
Total
Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Sky Sanctuary
Speed Highway
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Crisis City
Rooftop Run
Planet Wisp
Green Hill Challenge 1
Green Hill Challenge 2
Green Hill Challenge 3
Green Hill Challenge 4
Green Hill Challenge 5
Chemical Plant Challenge 1 (No Modern)
Chemical Plant Challenge 2
Chemical Plant Challenge 3
Chemical Plant Challenge 4
Chemical Plant Challenge 5 (No Classic)
Sky Sanctuary Challenge 1
Sky Sanctuary Challenge 2
Sky Sanctuary Challenge 3
Sky Sanctuary Challenge 4
Sky Sanctuary Challenge 5
Speed Highway Challenge 1
Speed Highway Challenge 2
Speed Highway Challenge 3
Speed Highway Challenge 4
Speed Highway Challenge 5
City Escape Challenge 1
City Escape Challenge 2
City Escape Challenge 3
City Escape Challenge 4
City Escape Challenge 5
Seaside Hill Challenge 1
Seaside Hill Challenge 2
Seaside Hill Challenge 3
Seaside Hill Challenge 4
Seaside Hill Challenge 5
Crisis City Challenge 1
Crisis City Challenge 2
Crisis City Challenge 3
Crisis City Challenge 4
Crisis City Challenge 5
Rooftop Run Challenge 1
Rooftop Run Challenge 2
Rooftop Run Challenge 3
Rooftop Run Challenge 4 (No Modern)
Rooftop Run Challenge 5 (No Classic)
Planet Wisp Challenge 1
Planet Wisp Challenge 2
Planet Wisp Challenge 3
Planet Wisp Challenge 4
Planet Wisp Challenge 5
Category: Scores
Divisions: Total, Classic, Modern
Levels
Total
Green Hill
Chemical Plant
Sky Sanctuary
Speed Highway
City Escape
Seaside Hill
Crisis City
Rooftop Run
Planet Wisp
Category: Bosses
Divisions: Total, Normal, Hard
Levels:
Total
Metal Sonic
Death Egg Robo
Perfect Chaos
Shadow
Silver
Egg Dragoon
Time Eater
Category: Extra
Divisions: Total, Classic, Modern
Levels::
Total
Green Hill 1 (No Classic)
Green Hill 2
Green Hill 3 (No Modern)
Green Hill 4
Green Hill 5
Chemical Plant 1
Chemical Plant 2 (No Modern)
Chemical Plant 3
Chemical Plant 4 (No Classic)
Chemical Plant 5
Sky Sanctuary 1 (No Classic)
Sky Sanctuary 2
Sky Sanctuary 3
Sky Sanctuary 4 (No Modern)
Sky Sanctuary 5
Speed Highway 1
Speed Highway 2
Speed Highway 3 (No Modern)
Speed Highway 4
Speed Highway 5 (No Classic)
City Escape 1
City Escape 2
City Escape 3
City Escape 4 (No Classic)
City Escape 5 (No Modern)
Seaside Hill 1
Seaside Hill 3
Seaside Hill 4
Seaside Hill 5
Crisis City 1 (No Classic)
Crisis City 2 (No Modern)
Crisis City 3
Crisis City 4
Crisis City 5
Rooftop Run 1 (No Classic)
Rooftop Run 2 (No Modern)
Rooftop Run 3
Rooftop Run 4
Rooftop Run 5
Planet Wisp 1 (No Modern)
Planet Wisp 2 (No Classic)
Planet Wisp 3
Planet Wisp 4
Planet Wisp 5
Game Rules:
- You may submit times you obtained from the Doppleganger Challenges to the Times w/o skills category.
Times w/ Skills Category:
- You may have a skill equipped to submit a time to this category
Times w/o Skills Category:
- You must not have any skills equipped for a time submitted to this category
Boss Category:
- You must use corresponding difficulties for the Normal and Hard divisions
Extra Category:
- If you obtained a time of 0:00.00 in a mission, you may submit 0:00.01 until support for the former time is added.
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Sonic with DLC? How long has this been going on? wtf...
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You know Sonic 06 and Unleashed both had dlc right?
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^He probably doesn't.
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I love it when someone comes into a Chart discussion and asks an off-topic question(I know I'm being hipocrytical here, but still) >_>
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Just making sure, it's ok to submit rings from Ranking mode under the doppelganger challenge, right?(Since both of them are virtually the same. Same level, no skills, ect.)
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No - doppleganger missions have a time limit, which is why the charts for them exist at all. Submitting rings from ranking attack to the levels themselves is fine though.
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Sorry for the slight bump, but I think this is very important to note: Rooftop Run Act 1 Challenge 5 is called "One Ring Challenge".
OH REALLY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Ygj4Y_aVU
Millernusgaming got two rings, and I've seen 6 more in the level! With at least 8 Rings, isn't the purpose of the challenge defeated?
I'm posting it here because Cream's coop challenge is tracked for a similar reason, but this one isn't. What's the general opinion?
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Sorry for the slight bump, but I think this is very important to note: Rooftop Run Act 1 Challenge 5 is called "One Ring Challenge".
OH REALLY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Ygj4Y_aVU
Millernusgaming got two rings, and I've seen 6 more in the level! With at least 8 Rings, isn't the purpose of the challenge defeated?
I'm posting it here because Cream's coop challenge is tracked for a similar reason, but this one isn't. What's the general opinion?
I don't see what this has to do with the charts.
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^I was referring to the Rings chart, of course. That mission is ignored because its title suggests Ring competition would be nonsense. But I've found that there are more than one ring in the level, so Ring competition could make sense after all. I'd say the Vs. Vector challenge is even less competitive, yet it has a Rings chart.
I just wanted to put a response to the Rings-related discussions of this topic.
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^I was referring to the Rings chart, of course. That mission is ignored because its title suggests Ring competition would be nonsense. But I've found that there are more than one ring in the level, so Ring competition could make sense after all. I'd say the Vs. Vector challenge is even less competitive, yet it has a Rings chart.
I just wanted to put a response to the Rings-related discussions of this topic.
you mean those 6 ?
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^Yes, I haven't been able to reach them, my Spindash Jumps never get high enough. But I'm more intrigued about the "ghost" Ring that Millernusgaming got in his video. That one CAN be collected, but I don't know if it even exists in PC.
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Just wanted to say I also tried this, did exactly what he did on the video and can't get that ring. Silly question time: could it be a version difference or a bug? >_>
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Better to bump this topic than make a new one, I was wondering about the addition of Boss Score Attack charts, and, for Death Egg Robot and Perfect Chaos, Ring attack charts.
I'm not entirely sure why these weren't added in the first place, however Zeupar said he think's it may have been due to score attacks and speed runs being similar, or that some bosses have an infinite amount of rings.
Regarding score attack charts for bosses with metal sonic, the fastest speed run gives you the score record (unless someone was a second slower but got more rings). This is also the case for perfect chaos if you collect 100 rings, whoever zakuranHD's 1:19 speed run only gets 95 rings, so a slower time but with 5 more rings could result with a higher score. For time eater the time attack record is the score record due to more than 100 rings being collected.
As for Death Egg Robot the time attack record isn't necessarily the score attack record, for example this is the score record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhmAfHTOj8 however this is the time attack record (that has a video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgvg_AEIHCU&feature=youtu.be . So those 2 strategies are totally different. For shadow collecting more rings and getting a worse time (as would happen in a typical act speed run) gives you a higher score. The same applies for silver and egg dragoon.
Also although some strats are the same as the speedrun for some bosses this is also the case for acts where score attack charts already exist, e.g rooftop run modern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWzLDm8QDl4 the TA WR is the SA WR, and for rooftop run classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxu0E0ht_I .
Finally for ring attack charts a ring attack works perfectly for DER and Perfect chaos because there isn't an infinite amount of rings in those levels.
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i love this games score systems
it's unique and involves speed
but the infinite rings things is a bit bad but o still dint know how the score attack system works
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the ring bonnus only counts up to 100 rings, and the time bonus depends on how fast you were. So to get the highest score you need only 100 rings and the fastest time getting them.
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what did u just say?????????????????
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Super Sonic is useless anyway so there's no real point.
Super Sonic is only useful in two stages, Crisis City and Speed highway acts 2.
I have two videos for you. both done by me.
here's crisis city
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkk6_iZaRfY
Speed Highway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPllWs1duVg