The Sonic Center
Sonic Central => TSC Race Night => Topic started by: flying fox on September 23, 2012, 03:41:55 pm
-
So 23 people voted for yes to bring back Race Nights, which we did. Two weeks have gone by and despite 23 people voting, I have not seen the two races we had so far even hit double figures. Obviously something is wrong when 10 people vote for a race and only 3 people raced it >_>
Basically this topic is for finding out why people are voting but not turning up? what other problems are there? and what would you like to see?
Seeing 23 people vote for it to come back, surely there is some interest in it. So let's try and fix this!
-
I voted to bring this back.. But I only voted for when I could participate, because I am getting a laptop for my birthday. I will participate, don't get me wrong, but I have no ways of doing so now. I tried to come and watch, but the server doesn't like the ipad (D8)
-
An idea I would like to propose would be holding the goal voting to the people who show up in the race channel and have already entered the race.
-
I'm glad this post has been made, because this is something that needs addressing, as I believe that TRN should be an important part of the revitalisation of this website, yet it's getting very little turnout.
Now, in the poll for which team was to be raced in Sonic Heroes, which was only for people who would be participating in the race, 15 people voted. 15 would have been a very respectable turnout for the race, we certainly couldn't have complained about that. Now of course, there were probably a couple of people who didn't realise to not vote, and then there were probably a couple who voted and then stuff came up and so they couldn't race, which is understandable. Still, to only get 20% turnout of those voters is just rubbish. I'd like to know why these people specifically didn't race this weekend.
My proposition is that this weekend we should race Sonic 2. Now we can vote on this and be democratic, I'm just proposing Sonic 2 because I know that Sonic 2 is probably the most universally loved Sonic game, and surely 95%+ of us here have it. And then I think that as many of us as possible should make the effort to race it. If the problem is with the time, then we can sort that, though I'm not so sure it is.
It's really easy to join the race, just follow the instructions that are currently sitting on the home page and you'll be fine. You can ask for help if you need any. Streaming is non-essential if you're not playing on an emulator, though preferable just so there's no disputing your performance (and easy to do if you are using an emulator).
Hopefully a mass race will help people get motivated about this idea of TRN, and if it's a reasonable amount of people it may make a reasonable splash at speedrunslive, who might then discover this website that they didn't know about before. A little influx of new members wouldn't go amiss here, but a 3-man Sonic Heroes race (which became 1 man) is not going to do that.
Everything here is just suggestions - I hold no authority whatsoever. This is just my idea about how to move TRN forwards. If we're going to get anything out of this, we're going to have to put some in.
tl;dr - READ IT YA LAZY FOOL
-
Shown up in the channel yes, but being actually required to enter the race in order to vote? No please.
Some people may only be able to do short goals; if they're forced to enter and then a long goal gets chosen they're pretty much SOL.
-
Shown up in the channel yes, but being actually required to enter the race in order to vote? No please.
Some people may only be able to do short goals; if they're forced to enter and then a long goal gets chosen they're pretty much SOL.
When all 4 of the choices are long goals as they were this weekend however, then I think that yes, if you vote, you should vote with the intention to race. EDIT: So yes, I agree with bertin
Incidentally, this is another point I have in favour of Sonic 2 - it's short. Even someone like me, and I certainly don't specialise in Sonic 2 at all, knowing none of the paths or anything, should expect to get through it within an hour I would've thought (I'll probably prove myself wrong now!)
Also, these race nights are meant to be long goals, such as game completions, hence making them worth double points in the TRN 247 system. However, if this is why we aren't getting great turnout, then people should say.
-
if anything you guys can try shorter goals since I remember longer sets used to turn people away (both sonic mini-marathon races). it always seems when trying for such a lengthy set, hype comes through until the reality sets in for those wanting to participate.
s3k was a nice start since I'm surprised even that many entered and it being glitchless to try for balance. now I'm not all for keeping all races glitchless though because even that can be a turnoff to some. now for this week, I'm sorry, but it's heroes for crying out loud. it was either going to be a low turnout or a lot of quits.
now here's the thing, as for participants, who are we aiming for? if it's tsc locals, then that's going to be an issue. most here don't have it in them to race a full game for various reasons. another problem was some that takes this too seriously. as soon as something doesn't go their way, it's a quit. we have all of these members, yet most are still reluctant to even come in the irc chatroom. that's just from us, but what about any outsiders? I never asked this, but are they welcome to join as well? to me, it wouldn't hurt at this point.
this might just be me, but how about more higher ups getting in if they're around. yes, having a judge of sorts to pay attention to what's going on is helpful, but if there's more than 1 around, how about entering the races just because. numbers do mean something and it does catch the attention of anyone around tsc and srl.
I had some other things on my mind, but I'm drawing a black.
-
I agree with SJ on two points in particular. We should allow people to enter not just from TSC. I was under the impression that this was probably the case already, but we should clarify it. By allowing 'outsiders' to join they may become TSC members anyway potentially.
I also think that higher ups should join if they can. Numbers are indeed important, and as SJ and I have both mentioned, big numbers are more likely to attract the attention of people at SRL, which can only be positive for us. If we can get 20+ people to race, then I think people are going to be interested. (I'm not saying 20 should be our goal every weekend, that's unrealistic, but if we can get at least one weekend with 20 that would be great). I believe this to be within the capacity of the website but maybe I'm just delusional.
-
The topics been made, people should actually be posting their concerns, criticisms, opinions, and things that have gone well. As such, time for me to post...
Yeah, I'm not doing these anymore. The time sucks for me, but I was still willing to throw out my sleep schedule for a day to add one more to the numbers. Due to other shit going on yesterday, I had to stay up for a full 26 or so hours to participate, and really needed to stay up for another 7 after that because I had stuff lined up for a few hours after the race.
To see only 2 other people show up got me real mad, and I lost all motivation to even race and ended up falling asleep with controller in hand. Meaning I also missed something that was probably more important, and woke up even more mad. All these people not reading when the race actually is, coming up with a bunch of johns, and being involved and simply not racing is always going to get something like this to fail. If you aren't racing, how can you expect others to race? And before anyone takes this the wrong way, this is directed to every single person who voted or posted positively and didn't race.
It really does piss me off that ya'll will sit here and try to hype something up and then not even bother racing yourself. Someone has got to be the person who enters a race with 2 people, so the 4th person will think to enter, and the 5th. It really isn't about racing, it's about doing something to get TSC together. I'm sick of relying on other people, but ya'll but start talking the talk, I personally found it very inconsiderate that Hypersonic and Sonicboom were the only ones to really show up.
Oh, and no one even bothered to reply to me about the time change, which I'm 100% certain would've had more than 3 people in the race if it was moved an hour forward. Think about that in the future too.
tl;dr I can not stand fence sitters, and I despise people that can't keep their word, and I'm done.
Oh, and I'd also like to give my utmost gratitude and apologies to Hypersonic and Sonicboom, because without you I probably would've broken something quite valuable last night. Sorry I didn't finish the race, Hyper =(
-
Also, maybe posting other topics for majority of the sonic games would be smart, since I want to race other people as soon as I get a computer. And from the looks of things, Sonic 06 will never be raced.... It's my best game for speedrunning...
EDIT: Just wanted to add, I went "lolfail" as soon as I saw how many people competed in Heroes.
-
As the race nights are at a time that I will be working every week, I will never be able to get involved. I'm posting here with respect to the hype and lack of participation because we already had this happen with the TSC Marathon. I think the question runs deeper than why people didn't show up for one particular event: the actual question is "why are members trying to encourage group activity when they can't or won't actually participate?", not "what is wrong with Race Night?". I'd like to see people answer THAT in this topic, as I think any answers about Race Night will only apply to individuals (such as my first sentence).
-
Thorn brings up a decent point. I do encourage this, but I can't join (yet).
-
I feel I should quickly justify my position for the record, as I have recently come back and strongly advocated all group activity, and yet I have not participated in either race night. S3K, I was moving into university on that day so I was too busy unpacking to race that evening. For Heroes, I simply haven't brought my PS2 or Heroes with me here, so I couldn't race it. That said, I 100% commit to racing SA2 in 2 weeks time (and indeed thoroughly look forward to doing so). I encourage other people to state their intention to race SA2 as well, so that we can have a better idea of numbers and whether the interest is there this time.
-
I can do emulated games. Sadly, I have a birthday dinner I'm making for myself (lolnofriends) on the SA2 race night, so I can't come. And yes, it is on the exact same day as my birthday.
-
I apologise again for turning up late for the S3K race; it took me a while to set up IRC (which, I know, I should have made sure of in advance). I'll definitely join a Sonic 2 race if one takes place.
-
if it hasn't been said yet i think race night totes needs to be rescheduled for thorn participation. the beast attracts all kinds of participation.
-
I think FF should try her best to compete too, as she was the one organising it and ofc, it'd look better.
From now on though I should be able to race everynight providing I have the game in question. Regarding sa2b race night, I'll DEFINATLY be there. Best goal options would be beating a set of stages for a character, or beating a single story.
-
Maybe we should move to Friday or Sunday.
As for lack of participation: personally? I don't feel that racing is really my thing. I don't usually terribly enjoy it even when it's a game I actually know and am good at. So when both the games picked are ones I barely know at all, go figure I'm not all that interested. But that's just me, and there's plenty of people around who feel differently, and I'd love to see TSC do more things as a community, so of course I'm trying to encourage race night; why wouldn't I?
Though for what it's worth I didn't vote in either of the goal polls.
-
So, I'll start off with a personal recap of yesterday's race, writing down my thoughts and impressions.
I, like probably every other member, based on the outcome of the poll, expected 10-15 people in the race.
When there were only 3 people present, 10 minutes after the scheduled start, i wasn't too worried, thinking the race would just be a bit delayed.
I thought, let's open tsc's twitch stream, to see if there's commentary...nope...well, let's see what streams there were the last couple of days...*clicks on videos tab*...ZELDA!!! o.O
By then the race already started...haven't seen a single minute of Sonic Heroes ever, i was happy to see werster(the no.1 ranked player for Sonic Heroes on SRL) participate. Sadly, his stream was lagging, but i thought that would settle.
Just seconds into the race, he started to break the record for most profanity in a video games stream and apparently ragequit after a few minutes. I had enough for the evening and closed my browser. :-(
After reading werster's comment in this thread, i can understand his outburst.
Maybe i expected too much from these weekly races, but there's no doubt, that it could've gone better.
So, i have some suggestions:
-add commentary to tsc's twitch channel
Not only was the marathon for a good cause, it also roused TSC from hibernation and allured 240 followers.
A race coverage with commentary would not solely reach the tsc members, also a broader audience who likes Sonic.
-finding the day of the week and time of day with the largest intersection among members, willing to participate
I know it's impossible to find a date and time that suits everyone, but we should have a fixed schedule soon, otherwise it's impossible to gain viewer loyalty
-pulling together
The most important point of all. Everybody knows the turmoil the site has seen in the last couple of weeks, maybe things should've settled a bit more before undertaking such a big project.
One thing is for sure, not only TSC, even the whole Sonic franchise is at a crucial point.
The classic Sonic games on the Genesis are running the risk of falling into oblivion as opposed to the classic Mario, Mega Man or Zelda games which are prospering more than ever.
TSC can play a pivotal role to turn the tide, so i say, let's forget what divides us and remember why we are here...
OUR PASSION FOR SONIC
-
Shorter goals sounds like a good idea for long games.
-
I was thoroughly disappointed by the Heroes race. I personally don't own the game and I've played it about 30 minutes total around 6 years ago or something so that's why I didn't participate. I did however not vote and I think that voting for a game you won't be racing is kinda like voting for the election of another country or something.
For the S3K race I liked the fact that there was a bunch of people from TSC, even some that actually know something about the game! But yea given the initial interest it was still kind of a disappointment.
The fact is that if you had a free hour or two and a working computer from 2002 or later with internet then you could've gotten in this race. Perhaps it isn't clear if you decide to enter 10 minutes before it starts but for starters, you don't need an IRC client to join races. There's an embedded one on SRL so all you need is to install java and the browser itself gives you a link to an appropriate download. When you got that, you don't even have to set up an account ,just log in with a username that no'ones taken. Secondly you don't need to have the game ready on your console to play together with capture cards and stuff, just grow some balls and get an emulator. Thirdly, there's no absolute need to stream or something. If you're on an emulator you should stream even if it's an unstable 100kb/s upload. If you're playing on console and don't have a capture card, just stream sound! Commentate and make the tv loud enough for the mic to pick up. But if you're absolutely oblivious to how computers work then there's no problem to type in your act time as you finish them. The cutscenes in S3&K are always the same length with variance of the amount of points you get so if you get called out you could get verified with those times.
tl;dr there's not many reasons not to join and something like a general signup list might be a good idea if FF, Thorn and anyone else who could manage the races feel it's worth the effort. I could also be fine with racing an hour or two later but not by much.
Something I want to mention is the OoT puzzle races that's been on SRL a couple times. I know that the person who made the puzzle usually host it on his channel together with 1 or 2 people on skype and he embeds the streams of the people in the lead and maybe 1 or 2 randoms. I think a system like that on the TSC twitch would be a good idea.
For people complaining about the time the race was, the obvious system is for the people participating to vote for the times they could be fine with. Though idk about how mature people here are when 12 ppl who don't feel like racing still goes around voting anyway.
I think Fridays are bad because it rules out a lot of times since Americans might be at work or school.
-
I honestly now think that maybe we should -suggest- race times. The points for TSCRN24/7 should be equal, and require video/picture/witness proof. Instead of having a set race night, we should have a race week where in the chat you can find people to race for the game of the week. Not onlly will it fit into others schedule, it will allow people to play the games they like more often. Just a thought.
-
I honestly now think that maybe we should -suggest- race times. The points for TSCRN24/7 should be equal, and require video/picture/witness proof. Instead of having a set race night, we should have a race week where in the chat you can find people to race for the game of the week. Not onlly will it fit into others schedule, it will allow people to play the games they like more often. Just a thought.
I thought you could already do that. In any case that would be to loose for the "official TSC race night" to be held at an arbitrary time when people happen to be online. I wouldn't want to wait at the IRC for 2 hours hoping that the race will start soon while I'm waiting for more people to join >_>. I thought the idea was to have the possibility to track your races on TSC and every week there would be a big themed race where points mattered more and where perhaps the race results got featured on the front page or something, at least when there's enough participants.
-
I honestly now think that maybe we should -suggest- race times. The points for TSCRN24/7 should be equal, and require video/picture/witness proof. Instead of having a set race night, we should have a race week where in the chat you can find people to race for the game of the week. Not onlly will it fit into others schedule, it will allow people to play the games they like more often. Just a thought.
Yeah, this is already possible, and covered in TRN 247 (although only S3K has scorecards so far). My belief in the idea of a proper designated race night is that it is an opportunity for the community to come together and have as many of us compete as possible in our area of common interest, Sonic, at the same time. That's what my thinking is behind it anyway, and that's what I'm hoping TRN can deliver for me.
-
What I'm saying is take away race nights and make game race weeks instead. We can post a topic or something saying that we will stream instead of having epic fail race nights. This way, people can race at anytime and we can archive the videos for watching instead of these one night only. Make a topic for everygame, list an approximate week for racing the game (if you miss the week, you can post but only get half points), and tell people to find players in the chat. Also, we need these higher-ups to join.
If you are an admin and you don't show up because you don't want to, why should you be an admin if you don't contribute to the community?
-
If you are an admin and you don't show up because you don't want to, why should you be an admin if you don't contribute to the community?
i no rite, I mean the Olympics Comittee organise a world wide event and then take part in every single event, oh wait
-
What I'm saying is take away race nights and make game race weeks instead...This way, people can race at anytime and we can archive the videos for watching instead of these one night only.
But the thing is, you can go to IRC and find anyone to race any game you like and then post about it in the 24/7 thread. To limit the races to only one game a week is the stupidest idea ever and would only limit the whole racing idea (albeit there's very few races as is).
EDIT: One thing I would advise is revealing the category at least a day or two before the actual race. Though I would like the poll closed right after the race the week before. This is to encourage practise and competitiveness (e.g. "just got a xx:xx, watch out for me on saturday guys ;)" ) since I think some might not want to race if you don't know the game or only know a specific category well. I know I and Hypersonic did a few practise runs the day before the S3K race as soon as we realised what category it would most likely be.
-
All of my ideas have been shot down. lol. Oh well. I tried. So maybe we need front page news reports and instead of making the poll last just one hour before the race, we need time to practice like Timp said. So maybe you guys should start the poll during the race, like if you are watching them competing, you start the poll page. Then they would have two days to vote on the game (Monday). Two days to vote on a goal (Wednesday) and about three days to practice, set up, make a time for the race, etc., etc.
-
This is what I mean. It's already Wednesday and we haven't even put the poll for games yet. If we are going to have successful race nights, we need to have everything done by today, to allow for confirmations and practice. I'm not trying to be mean, but we have to step up if we want this to work.
-
Oh. Well you guys should really announce that stuff. lol.
-
Right first all of Hyper is right. I decided to take race nights off for a week so we can sort out these problems. The reason I didn't say anything earlier was because I needed the whole of Monday to make sure things were alright at home, go shopping to get stuff and then pack for the next day. Tuesday I was traveling for half of the day to see RPG and he had the rest of the day planned for me. So yeah some of us do have lives outside of TSC.
-
Sorry. I get uber confused when nothing happens. I have a (tiny) reputation of being out of the loop at school. (But I bet that they leave me out on purpose since I'm so unpopular)
-
So I'm getting that some people are pissed that others didn't participate. This is supposed to be a fun thing, yes? A low turnout seems to me to indicate that there's not much interest in the concept of race nights, or maybe it was something else like a bad game choice. I don't really see how guilting and telling people they should be -obligated- to participate in something that's supposed to be fun is going to work, however. Even if it works the first time, it's certainly not going to be sustainable for any decent amount of time.
The question shouldn't be "how do we make people participate?", but rather "how can we make this into something people -want- to participate in?" Think about that.
Unrelatedly, here's a random idea. Why don't we make the races a bit more spontaneous? That is, we still have a set time and date, but we don't vote on the game or goals at all; rather, we decide it at the last second among whoever ended up showing up at the race. I could see that being interesting. Up to you guys if that sounds like a good idea though.
-
Right now that I am back in internet land, it's time to sort this out. I am going to go through the whole of race nights, so be warned it's going to be a massive post.
As I said earlier, it's been taken off for a week to sort out the problems and some people agreed with this. Since I haven't seen SDM for a while, I have asked Strong Bad (who SDM did ask to help out with the ranking cards) to also help with the organising of race nights and he said yes. So thank you SB :)
For starters, people really need to back off on the whole ‘you need to participate’ or ‘the higher ups should participate’ thing. The whole reason for race nights, was for the community to get together to have fun. You can do this by either racing or having fun watching people stream the race. It doesn’t matter either way. As for me and the higher ups, Umbreon said he doesn’t want to race because he doesn’t like it. I have no problems with this, I don’t want people being forced to race if they don’t like it. Thorn can’t make it because of work, which sucks. No idea about the other admins, but as for me I did explain in IRC why I couldn’t participate for what feels like the billionth time and I rather not explain it again in here >_>
Time/day change?
Right I know some people have said to me that they couldn’t make it because of the time and/or day wasn’t right for them. So I would like to know what times and days are suitable for you guys. For example we could race on a Sunday 10am EDT 3pm BST/ 12am AEST. Be aware I can’t find a time suitable for everyone, but I will try my best to accommodate most people.
Game and goals
Umbreon mentioned being more spontaneous with the races with game choosing. I did start to think that maybe the planning was too strict. I am for the idea of giving the racers the choice to choose their own goal. So that way you guys can either have longer or shorter goals and compromise for people who might be interested in racing. As for choosing your own game, we are still going to do alternate 2D/3D week. Just not sure on whether to keep polling for the game you want or not. I can see where Umbreon is coming from, but if a game is chosen and people don’t want to race in it, they might leave the channel instead of sticking around and watching the stream maybe.
I know someone mentioned ranking cards. The reason there was no sign up sheet for heroes, was because there were no ranking cards in the ftp folder that SDM set up for me and SB. So nothing we could’ve done there. Results of the race will still be posted to the forum if anyone is interested.
Lastly, I saw that some people didn’t realise that the race was on. So we might have to make a post on the front page of TSC or something. Since S3&K was announced and not heroes and had more racers than heroes. Also people outside of TSC are welcome to join us in the races.
-
I agree with Umbreon on making Goals/Games last second decisions.
also sa2b
-
Like I said before, I don't feel like lingering around for 1-2 hours just waiting for the race to start in the IRC, let alone be decided at all. I need set times so I can plan my weekend out so I'm against that idea. If people don't like the idea of voting in advance, why not just do a rotation? That would rule out the possibility of unpopular games to never get a race too.
If you want to gather availability times I'd probably be able to race somewhere between 18:00 and 1:00 GMT most Fridays and/or Saturdays. Perhaps some mornings Saturday/Sunday too but that's a big variable.
-
The time would be set in stone. I imagine we could just have people start joining an hour or so beforehand and then create the race maybe 10 minutes before the scheduled time? So then the race could still actually start at the scheduled time.
It sounds like a fair system to me, ensures that the terms of the race will be determined by whoever actually shows up to race. Also cuts out some debatably unnecessary structure.
edit: It'd be nice if we could say "if you aren't ready by x time, the race will start without you" but I don't use SRL enough to know if that's built into the system there.
-
So I'm getting that some people are pissed that others didn't participate. This is supposed to be a fun thing, yes? A low turnout seems to me to indicate that there's not much interest in the concept of race nights, or maybe it was something else like a bad game choice. I don't really see how guilting and telling people they should be -obligated- to participate in something that's supposed to be fun is going to work, however. Even if it works the first time, it's certainly not going to be sustainable for any decent amount of time.
The question shouldn't be "how do we make people participate?", but rather "how can we make this into something people -want- to participate in?" Think about that.
Unrelatedly, here's a random idea. Why don't we make the races a bit more spontaneous? That is, we still have a set time and date, but we don't vote on the game or goals at all; rather, we decide it at the last second among whoever ended up showing up at the race. I could see that being interesting. Up to you guys if that sounds like a good idea though.
Firstly, I just want to say that whilst I agree with your point that no one should feel obligated to race, people who have implied prior that they will race and then just don't bother to turn up will annoy me. 10 people voted to do Team Sonic as the Sonic Heroes race yet only 3 bothered. That is why I am annoyed at people. The situation with higher ups somehow being obligated to race is completely different to this and wrong. If you're not going to enjoy racing, then why should you race? That doesn't mean you can't help out either in my opinion.
I agree with your question distinction in the second paragraph, and of course, making it into something that people want to participate in is the primary goal. However, strongly encouraging people to race is one such solution to this goal - the more people that race, the more fun everyone has. Again, nobody should be forced or made to feel bad or somehow exiled from the community if they do not.
And to your idea - it's a good one, although people might get annoyed if they turn up and then a game is raced that they do not have/do not want to race. However, if we can agree on the time change that flying fox has proposed then hopefully the time won't actually be too bad for anybody to turn up to. However, I think that problem is more than compensated for by the fact that under that system the game that the most people who have actually showed up to the race feel like competing in at that time will be the game that's being played (along with the goal people want as well). It's certainly worth trying, though I still think that we should nail down SA2 as the race on 06/10 (edit: 6th October, dating ambiguity for the lose) as it is the week of the release of the HD version so people will be motivated to race it. It might be in the end that a healthy mixture of voted games and pre-decided games is the way to go in the end - I don't know. It's best to try and see I think.
EDIT: And yes, races should start on time.
-
I think that making everything spontaneous might be a bad idea, considering that I don't enjoy the classics(Don't shoot me down) or Generations, and countless other sonic games. If I turn up, and it's a game I don't like, I will leave. Who says others won't do the same?
-
It's certainly worth trying, though I still think that we should nail down SA2 as the race on 06/10 (edit: 6th October, dating ambiguity for the lose) as it is the week of the release of the HD version so people will be motivated to race it.
I can't deny that makes sense. It's just unfortunate for me, as 13/10 is the Play Expo event, so if that ends up being the date of the next 2D race I'll have to miss it. And I was hoping to get in a Sonic 2 race as practice before Play Expo :(
-
I think that making everything spontaneous might be a bad idea, considering that I don't enjoy the classics(Don't shoot me down) or Generations, and countless other sonic games. If I turn up, and it's a game I don't like, I will leave. Who says others won't do the same?
Firstly, the races would still alternate between 2D and 3D so if you prefer your Sonics to have a third dimension for example, then you'll get your fix (although undoubtedly Generations will turn up at some point). I do agree that some people will leave if they don't want to race the game that's chosen. However, the hope is that more people turn up to begin with, and once they're there, the game that's chosen will be the game that is most popular with the people who are actually there and in a position to race, as opposed to turning up and having to race a game that was voted for by lots of people who then didn't bother to show up.
-
^True. I just hope this way won't fail once we have the race of 10/13. Just one thing I think we should do, if it can be played on an emulator, we need to tell the people it is possible to. We don't have to give away the game, just say if we can use an emulator.
-
We don't have to give away the game, just say if we can use an emulator.
Races usually adhere to site rules. So yes, use an emulator. I don't know why I need to be answering this because it should be common lore.
-
I meant that if the game is possible to be played on an emulator, tell us it can. I don't think downloading it like, just a few minutes before the race is completely fair. Lets say we are racing Sonic Advance. Your hint would be "This game is playable on an emulator"
-
The site rules on whether or not it can be played on an emulator are a little flexible, maybe? Probably not the right word, but here's what I mean:
If there is an emulator for it and you have an iso (ie i dunno, a GC emulator and an iso of Shadow or something), that isn't good enough to automatically qualify it to be valid for competition use.
tl;dr if your pc cannot emulate it at the same speed as it runs on console, you're out of luck.
I know this mostly applies to more intensive games, ie not mega drive games or GBA games, but I feel it worth pointing out as my ancient laptop can only just emulate GBA games at 100% speed, and DS games are out of the question, so anyone sitting on top of some old and/or underpowered tech is shit out of luck on that front.
-
Right couple of things I just thought of. We could say meet up at SRL 15 minutes before races actually start for setting up. That should give us some time to pick the game,goal and people turn up. Then we must start at the time picked.
What do you guys think of a mod picking the two most competitive games at TSC then picking one out of those two. For example, 2D night is coming up so I would pick S1 and S2. Then you guys would pick which one of the two you want and goal. Or we could just pick out of whatever 2D games we have excluding S3&K since we raced.
Also if more people don't post about what day and time they would like the race to be on, then I'm just going to have to leave it as it is, because I can't sort it out for those who want it changed :(
Edit: since it looks like so many people are for it, you guys are picking the goal now :o
-
I meant that if the game is possible to be played on an emulator, tell us it can. I don't think downloading it like, just a few minutes before the race is completely fair. Lets say we are racing Sonic Advance. Your hint would be "This game is playable on an emulator"
I think you're misunderstanding. The idea isn't to keep the game a secret. The idea is not to pick the game at all until the last second.
Anyhow, since there seems to be a decent amount of support for my idea, why don't we try it this Saturday? Considering there's nothing planned anyway, and this setup doesn't exactly need a whole lot of planning.
-
I meant that if the game is possible to be played on an emulator, tell us it can. I don't think downloading it like, just a few minutes before the race is completely fair. Lets say we are racing Sonic Advance. Your hint would be "This game is playable on an emulator"
I think you're misunderstanding. The idea isn't to keep the game a secret. The idea is not to pick the game at all until the last second.
Anyhow, since there seems to be a decent amount of support for my idea, why don't we try it this Saturday? Considering there's nothing planned anyway, and this setup doesn't exactly need a whole lot of planning.
I'd be happy for us to improvise and try Umbreon's idea this Saturday if everyone's cool with that.
With regards to the time change, I'll make official my stance of 'no opinion' because it makes no difference to me whether it's the current time or 10AM EDT Sunday. If people feel strongly about it one way or the other, I think it's crucial for you to speak out as soon as possible.
-
I understand it, I just have awful wording skills. Once we pick the game, tell us if it is available to play on an emulator. That's what I was trying to say.. This sounds like a great idea. I would join in if possible.
-
One thing to add, if you're planning on using an Emulator and the games are still hosted on Speed runs live, you'd better get some streaming equipment as they require you to stream.
And I agree, we should try using Umbreons suggestion this saturday and see how it goes.
-
One thing to add, if you're planning on using an Emulator and the games are still hosted on Speed runs live, you'd better get some streaming equipment as they require you to stream.
And I agree, we should try using Umbreons suggestion this saturday and see how it goes.
You don't have to stream. I was watching a Pokemon Crystal bingo race and someone didn't stream (they soon dropped out afterwards)
-
I cant rcae this saturday
For times, i think it should be every saturday. Morning time for US, afternoon for UK, and whatever time is left for the Aussies (I think werster is the only active Australian I think so we need his viewpoint), this prevents it going into the night for most of the active racers. The reason I quit the Heroes race halfway through was because I've never speed ran the game before, and I knew it would end up taking me all night - the trace simply started too late, I can't be starting at 10pm and end up being up throughout the night, if it starts at something like 3pm then I'll be fine, and i expect it'll be more convenient for everyone else, but we'll have to see what people thinnk of that proposed time.
-
I can't move it to 7pm EDT because then the Brits will be racing at 12am. I had them saying to me to move it earlier not later so if I do that we'll lose the Brits. Don't know what's happened to the people who wanted me to move it, they haven't posted in here yet but from the looks of things people want me to keep it the way it is.
-
Everyone get on a boat then well all be in the same time zone!
-
I think we should keep the time as it is. If people who wanted it moved aren't posting then clearly they didn't want it moved that much.
Because of how we have been yes-no-yes on whether there's a race this Saturday, I'm not expecting many people to turn up but if just a few of us do so we can trial Umbreon's idea that would be great.
-
(I think werster is the only active Australian I think so we need his viewpoint)
:'(
-
edit: It'd be nice if we could say "if you aren't ready by x time, the race will start without you" but I don't use SRL enough to know if that's built into the system there.
I have voice on SRL, so I can remove people from the race if they aren't ready by a certain time. This of course implies I'm around, but if you want to do this, I'll make sure I am.
Regarding time, it actually has to be done a lot more specifically than "let's try and get a time where the most people are awake." First of all, who is -actually racing-. Caring about Brits or Aussies makes no difference if none of them are actually racing. Second of all, who does it actually make a difference to. Like I mentioned before, my sleep schedule is flexible as I don't have a job, but there are people that do, get there input first, mine is absolutely irrelevant.
-
There's something I want to add, but this is about TRN247, we can only play one game for our ranking cards. Is it possible to make more games available to race with other people to make our race cards better?
-
No because the one person who can do that isn't around at the moment and has access to the ftp folder where the cards are stored. Which is why me and Strong Bad haven't been able to give them out.
-
I was under the impression that the whole point of the ranking card that it was to be used universally for all games?
If it's supposed to be a separate card for every single game then what is even the point.
Mind you it's not like SDM is here to read my horrible/contentless/snickering posts as he went AWOL after designing this frankly unnecessary and complicated system to be tacked onto something that was supposed to be a "turn up and have fun" style event.
-
...this frankly unnecessary and complicated system to be tacked onto something that was supposed to be a "turn up and have fun" style event.
This.
You know what's going to help pique the most interest in race nights? A casual, simple structure. Honestly, the site doesn't hold much interest in people that are interested in Sonic games but don't want to compete, and for ones that do want to compete, they are usually content to either be like hyper-competitive Da1 or prefer to play only their personal favorites. This results in scenarios where some race nights are going to have much less competitors than others, which they will anyway, but moreso because a person's going to feel like they have to be good at the game in order to race, which many people aren't going to feel that they are.
I think if you want the best results for race nights over a long term, you need to start out with a really bare-bones system that first encourages people within the system already (aka the regulars) to want to show up and participate.
-
^If I could articulate those words, I would've said them a while back
-
I think that, before each race night, players who have signed up to TRN247 for the game being raced on the race night (players who have not signed up to TRN247 for the game being raced will not be affected as they are TRN247 non-active players) should be able to choose whether they want to participate in that race as a TRN247 active player or not.
By a TRN247 active player, I mean someone whose race results will count towards their TRN247 score, and someone who can be beaten in a race by another TRN247 active player for that player to gain TRN247 points (or lost against by another TRN247 active player for that player to lose TRN247 points).
That way, if a player isn't very good at a game, they can race as a TRN247 non-active player and have fun without having to worry about their own TRN247 score, and without having to worry about an opponent beating them and increasing their TRN247 score. Meanwhile, someone who is more confident and competitive in a game can race it as a TRN247 active player, knowing that their results will count towards their TRN247 score, and that other TRN247 active players who win or lose against them can gain or lose TRN247 points by beating/losing against them.
I think this scheme (or a similar scheme - I haven't thought this through fully and it may need tweaking here and there) will entice more players to participate in these race nights, as they can decide beforehand whether they want to race as a TRN247 active player or not. These are just my thoughts on the matter. As for me, I'm not gonna be racing from 10pm till the next morning this winter :/
Sorry if this was long winded and badly worded, English isn't really my strong point (also I said TRN247 like a hundred times) :V
-
So basically what you're saying is, you'd like the ability for people to be able to go "no lol I don't want to be tracked on 24/7 for this race".
Which will realistically be every race where a person might lose points. The entire concept of being able to do that that makes this already redundant system even more redundant. Additionally it also adds additional work for SDM (not that he's here to do any anyway!) in that he'd have to manually check who opted out of being ranked because they might lose.
Bad idea/10
-
Yeah that seems unnecessarily complex. Additionally, segregating racers is a terrible idea since there aren't even many racers to begin with.
-
I would also add that I doubt the lack of Race Night participation has anything to do whatsoever with TRN247.
-
Firstly, TSRN WILL NEVER WORK BECAUSE SDM HASN'T BEEN HERE FOR TWO WEEKS. Secondly, Daniel what you said makes no sense. I agree with RPG and SkyL here.
Anyway, it's too annoying to go trhough all of that when all we want is to race.
-
@Umbreon: For reasons unknown?
It's true that the system isn't a blockade that when lifted will open the floodgates and tons of people will start doing race nights. However, to take a budding idea and just throwing up bells and whistles around it isn't really achieving anything other than giving people more things to glance at before they inevitably look away and do something else. There's an element of intimidation with this extra bulk, and while racing is the way it is right now, there's no element of interest in it.
-
Because TRN247 is something completely separate from the actual race nights. You can completely ignore that TRN247 even exists and just show up and race if you want to. Being put off by tne 247 system doesnt really make any sense to me as a reason why someone would stay away.
-
Well if people hear about TSC Race Night 24/7 and TSC Race Nights at the same time, then they're clearly going to think they're either the same thing or related.
Edit: In the spirit of finding contradictions to "TRN247 is separate from race nights," might I point out that we're discussing TSC Race Night turnout in the TSC Race Night 24/7 subsection of the forum?
-
TRN 247 is a choice. You don't have to be a part of it to enter the race nights, so if that is stopping anybody from racing then it shouldn't be. I'm really not sure why it would be anyway. At any rate, TRN 247 isn't happening at the moment, so it really shouldn't be a problem in the slightest.
If people are staying away because they don't feel they're good enough then I'd like that to stop. I'm racing, you can certainly beat me! It's about the fun of playing through the game, there's no shame in coming last (which I did in Sonic 2 this weekend). If you won't enjoy playing through the game then fine, don't race, but please, don't allow your perceived lack of skill stop you. We're not all speed demons here anyway.
So yeah, isn't it time to start seeing some forum promotion for the SA2B race on Saturday? Because if people don't know it's happening, they're not going to turn up.
-
did somebody say sa2 race....
-
I really don't see the problem with a race sign-up thread where you can vote for your personally preferred time (in text mind you). If someone repeatedly signs up but doesn't race then his/her votes are obviously going to lose power over time among the contenders.
It would solve all this "make it comfortable for europeans/australians/men from mars" issue. The results could get posted in that very thread together with the following chatter fallout, congratulations, mockings and whatnot.
I'm still not convinced about this whole "decide the time the day before, decide the game 10 minutes before racing" idea. Experience from SRL tells me that to have a game, goal and time set in stone a week or two before racing then advertise is as such is the best way to get people racing. I guess for some games like S3&K or SA2 it would kind of work with deciding the category/goal later on but as a rule of thumb I'm against it.
-
I can't move it to 7pm EDT because then the Brits will be racing at 12am. I had them saying to me to move it earlier not later so if I do that we'll lose the Brits. Don't know what's happened to the people who wanted me to move it, they haven't posted in here yet but from the looks of things people want me to keep it the way it is.
Can we have it at least an hour earlier, and it needs to start on schedule, not an hour later like the last one, a 9pm start would be the latest I can have really (GMT), tbh whoever is going to particpate needs a say, that's why I think the times should alternate each week for different participants, not countries in general, the people that have joined in one of the first two race nights perhaps should be considered the most cos they've prooved that they'll participate.
-
I'm happy with the current time but also happy with moving it one or two hours either way.
-
I think that the race nights should start at the same time each week to avoid confusion, and timing will always be less convenient for certain people in different time zones, but there's only so much that can be done about that. I also think that the game and story/mode/goal/whatever being raced should be decided at least two or three days before the actual race takes place to give people more notice as to what the race is going to be (so they can maybe do a practice run or prepare themselves or whatever). In my opinion people would feel more comfortable knowing what's going to be raced before (as TimpZ pointed out) the last minute. If a race takes place every Saturday, people will still have four or five days to vote and two or three days notice as to what the race will be. And I'm all for the race coordinators making front-page posts to raise awareness for the races :D
-
You know, I suggested some times and made a list =P
-
But having at the same time is bad. WE NEED to base it around the racers, who are confirmed to be racing to be honest.
-
so are we racing SA2 this weekend?
and if so does it have to be the HD version?
I propose we start between 8 and 9pm (GMT) that's 3-4pm US time I think.
-
so are we racing SA2 this weekend?
and if so does it have to be the HD version?
Yes, and to my knowledge, no.
-
ive never speed run that game so i'll come last :P
-
ive never speed run that game so i'll come last :P
I'm no speed demon at it, I'm sure you'll compete with me.
-
ive never speed run that game so i'll come last :P
don't worry i can't speed run ANYTHING and i'll be there, so you'll definitely not be last
-
so have we got a time?
-
so have we got a time?
i think the past couple times its been 5pm est, i don't know if that's still the case
-
We should have probably already set the time and goal. We shouldn't really procrastinate like this.
-
I'm sorry, is there a big race this weekend for one of the most popular speedrunned Sonic games? Date, time, version differences rulings, category, how to join, hype etc etc etc?
I think I know why race night fails...
-
If you read the earlier posts you would know that tonight is SA2B. The time never changed, so it's still 5pm EDT, 10pm BST/GMT/whatever and 7am AEST. Also you guys wanted to try it Umbreon's way, which was decide on the goal before you raced.
You really need to read the posts people >_>
Edit: The reason nothing got posted is because I have been too busy this week what with RPG's birthday and other stuff.
-
can it be changed to 4pm est - thats more convenient, 10pm is much too late for me, that extra hour earlier makes a big difference
-
Yeah, that's news to me; I was expecting to settle down with NiGHTS HD tonight. I also planned dinner after 5 PM. >_>
-
I would assume FF meant tomorrow.
-
yer i think its tomorrow
-
can it be changed to 4pm est - thats more convenient, 10pm is much too late for me, that extra hour earlier makes a big difference
I would suggest that it is probably too late to change the time for this week now. I think what we need to do is have a proper discussion about times here, possibly one where everyone says what times they can do so we can pick out a time that excludes the fewest people. I don't know, but I do think we should have a discussion.
P.S. It's tomorrow
-
I meant tomorrow sorry I haven't been really well. These past few days I have been lying in bed with horrendous headaches and feeling sick.
-
My point is, this is all very loosely strung together and if you want this to be a nice cool regular big race for sonic games then either someone needs to step up or more time is needed to get something organised. I mean not even the front page has been updated since S3&K and you want hype for SA2 which is tomorrow?
I'm just trying to be blunt about it, this topic is regarding race nights so far and my opinion is that this needs some more focus on it or it's going to die out pretty fast.
-
Okay, there's way too much indecision in this thread, so let's settle some of this.
1. Race night will be every Saturday at 5PM EDT. This is final unless someone comes up with a really good reason to change it.
2. The race is scheduled for 5. If you are not ready by 5, you will be removed from the race. You have plenty of time to show up and get ready, there is absolutely no reason we should be waiting on someone 10 or 15 minutes after the scheduled start time. If you want to be sure, make sure you get there early. You can still participate by starting late, but you won't be in RaceBot's results.
3. Tomorrow's race will be Sonic Adventure 2. Any version of the game is allowed. As for goal, we'll start from a new file, but whether we do Hero, Dark, or both is up for debate until tomorrow morning, at which point a final decision will be made.
-
at LAST - some organization, cheers umbreon
-
Right couple of things I just thought of. We could say meet up at SRL 15 minutes before races actually start for setting up. That should give us some time to pick the game,goal and people turn up. Then we must start at the time picked.
Edit: since it looks like so many people are for it, you guys are picking the goal now :o
Just wanted to point this out since I did do some organisation earlier. I also did say that the race would always be at 5pm EDT and it was SA2. I did say to read my posts and I did explain my absence on this topic this week -_-
-
flyingfox:
dont worry, u were ill and it's not ur fault, just everyone getting confused, there were so many posts lol
-
Cool. Now we just need an official page on the site where the rules and stuff are spelled out, past races and the upcoming race is presented. To have everything on the race page in the forum could work but it could easily become kind of cluttered or hard to navigate and such. Or at least keep the current system up with some modifications such as adding the set-in-stone time and then make every new race a new topic with game and date in the subject.
Make it official baby!
-
I'll see what I can do but I should probably wait till I'm better after what happened earlier >_<
-
By the way guys, there's a front page post for the SA2 race now. As it turned out, Thorn had just made a front page post about SA2 and NiGHTS, and then I posted that five minutes later without realizing Thorn was posting anything. Soo, if you were wondering why I haven't been doing new front page posts for every race, there you go.
As for setting up some pages for race night on the main site, I agree long term that's the way to go, but given how the last few races went, I'd prefer to wait and make sure there will even be a long term first.
-
Okay, theres been zero discussion on the goal, so we're going to race Hero Story.
Race starts in a bit under 3 hours. Let's make this a big one.
-
Sonic Adventure 2 race just wrapped up, was a pretty big success; 13 entrants, which makes it the biggest SA2 race on SRL from what I've heard. So I'm gonna share a few of my current thoughts and let you guys know about a change to the race night system we'll be making.
I believe one of the biggest issues with race night as it is right now is a lack of organization, and ultimately nobody has any idea what's happening or what game is being played until right before the race. There's a few factors behind why this keeps happening, but ultimately I believe the polling system just isn't as good an idea in practice as it is on paper. I suggested a setup a couple weeks ago where racers would decide what to race right before the race. This just made the issue even worse.
To address this, we're going to move away from the polling system and instead implement a rotation. Every Saturday at 5PM EDT we will rotate through a list of pre-selected games. I'm leaving it up to FF to determine exactly what games are in the rotation, but feel free to chime in with your own suggestions if you'd like. You guys can still decide what goals you want to do, but if there's no consensus, FF can make a dictator decision. :P
Another thing is that we're probably going to abandon SDM's system. There's been little interest in it plus SDM has not been around to maintain it, so there's really no point in keeping it around.
-
I agree with Umbreon about taking out SDM's system. Since S3&K no one has asked for a rankings card, the creator behind it hasn't been seen for nearly 3 weeks, plus it's extra work for me to do. When I thought about reviving race nights, there wasn't going to be a ranking system. It was going to be about people getting together to have fun and these quotes best describe it:
<yoshifan> getting together and playing video games = success, imo
<Cream147> yoshifan: agreed
-
If flyingfox decides what we'll race, will it still alternate between 2d and 3d?
-
Incidentally, to my knowledge Sonic Advance is the game being raced next week.
-
OK
can i just say I think there are 3 things that made this race night a Success
1. Time - we had a set time and it started on schedule, everyone was aware of it, so they new when to come and race
2. Front page post - the race night was posted on the front page - the one time that it wasnt posted on the home page was the worst one - yesterday was a great success and that's cos everyone knew about it - we just have to advertise it to people and they'll race.
3. The game - SA2 is a great game, tbh i don't like heroes so that may have put people off compared to SA2 which everyone likes. After doing alot of race nights I think we'll get an idea of what games are popular and which games aren't.
-
Sorry I haven't posted earlier, I was waiting for a period when I would have no migraine and not be asleep >_>
This race was a success with a turnout of 13 people and from what I can see from the race channel, everyone was having fun. So if we can make the next one a success I will make some positive changes to Race Nights. I have already started a list of games that everyone seems to be happy to race to like S3 and SA2B. Heroes of course won't be on the list, since that didn't get a huge turnout.
Edit: Yes we will alternate between 2D and 3D. My reason for this is so that we have variety. There are some people who prefer 3D over 2D and vice versa. This way the people who prefer let's say 2D won't have to wait too long for it to appear.
-
Sorry for the double post but wanted to say that action has already been done on race nights. Thanks to Umbreon TRN247 has been taken down including any posts linked to it and SDM has been taken off as a mod. More work is being done to it at the moment.
Edit: New awesome board description.
Edit 2: Race Nights rules have been added.
Edit 3: Games discussion topic opened.
-
some really good things to hear lately regarding the races. also not surprised at sdm's involvement.
-
Yes I know thread necromancy, but this is worth it as I want to discuss about Unofficial Race Night and how it went so far.
Imo I knew it wasn't going to be as popular as RN, but there was some interest as we had five racers for each race. I would like to continue with this, but I was thinking of making one small change, such as maybe only race one game, just like RN. Tell me what you think and if there's anything else you want to discuss, please say so on here. I would like to try and make URN as good as RN :)
-
yer i think only one game would be better, or two really short games