[Groudon]

Why are we omitting Bingo Highway? Is there something I'm missing, since from a score attacking perspective, it seems like a normal "find more of the chips mission" to me.

I know.  you're just finding 10 more chips, and I don't see why it should be omitted.  Getting rings from slot machines and BINGO boards will not add to your score.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up and thanks also to magnum for the stages we need to omit for obvious reasons.

EDIT: Groudon and magnum, I took care of that error with Mad Matrix. Thanks for pointing it out Groudon.

(P.S - I got 100% completion on Super Monkey Ball Adventure - all bananas and everythin'. But, I'm tryin' to figure out if one of the characters is playable somehow...)

EDIT 2: magnum12, your Heroes stats for the Special Stages are up. Thanks for your patience.

EDIT 3: Chart for Chaotix is up in first post.

[Groudon]

It looks like you forgot to add magnum's Final Haunt and Last Way ring stats.

Final Haunt: 246
Last Way: 310.

And I'll go with Chaotix extra mission scores.  I'll upload mine just as soon as I finish up the game.

[Shadow Jacky]

so what I thought of Chaotix Extra scores came true...mostly do to taker longer on extra missions, your score wont be as good even with sometimes more enemies being killed (also you do get points for getting special items).

Seaside Hill:  65770
Ocean Palace:  60160 (I hated this...pretty crappy)
Power Plant:  71350 (I also redid mission 1 and got a better score as well)

And I did this for fun and it really turned me off of Super Hard Mode...

Seaside Hill:  74990
Ocean Palace:  91210
Grand Metro:  62570 (died)
Power Plant:  106800
Casino Park:  57940
BINGO Highway:  58200
Rail Canyon:  35430
Bullet Station:  75320
Frog Forest:  46300 (died)
Lost Jungle:  didn't record :/
Hang Castle:  68900
Mystic Mansion:  37980
Egg Fleet:  105890
Final Fortress:  117590

SHM ANYTHING is BAD!

[Shadow Jacky]

also, highest Link with Team Rose:  247

forgot I wrote this down....>_>

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay, everyone.

As recommended to me be Thorn, himself, I have decided to make one last ditch effort to capture everyone's attention before I approach Rolken.

Here's the Support List, as seen on the Front Page. Please dble check that your name is there.


Shuffle Support:
1. ks8 (Me)
2. RPGnutter
3. gs93
4. F-Man
5. mike89
6. SadisticMystic
7. blueblaze

Fighters Support:
1. ks8
2. RPGnutter
3. gs93
4. F-Man
5. mike89
6. douglas
7. magnum12
8. Marth
9. PsyBorg
10. Groudon199
11. Shadow Jacky
12. blueblaze

Heroes Support:
1. ks8
2. gs93
3. magnum12
4. mike89
5. Shadow Jacky
6. eredani
7. blueblaze

Shadow Support:
1. Shadow Jacky
2. Groudon199
3. eggFL
4. PsyBorg
5. F-Man
6. RPGnutter
7. eredani
8. magnum12
9. blueblaze

Advance 3 Support:
1. RPGnutter
2. ks8
3. F-Man
4. Groudon199
5. eredani
6. blueblaze
7. mike89

Riders Support:
1. ks8
2. eggFL
3. Shadow Jacky
4. RPGnutter
5. PsyBorg


There are still some outstanding issues. Can anyone help me with these? They need to be resolved so I can make the final division lists.

Outstanding Issues
Shuffle:
1. Stage Divisions are still unresolved. Are we keeping them per character [Sonic, Tails..] or per mode [Story/Versus]?

Heroes:
1. Super Hard Mode divisions - Rings or Score? Both?

Sonic Advance 3:
Note to Self: Add 10-Minute Rule.

Sonic the Fighters:
1. I've gotten ideas for a Freestyle Competition. Which one would you rather do [and why] of the following:

Computers can be on Easy Mode; Computers can be on Hard Mode;  You can change the Round Time to 10 seconds; or; You can change any of the settings.
_______________________________
If anyone has any advice with the actual approaching of Rolken with all of our ideas, PLEASE let me know via PM or here on the forum. This would be of great help. Before I submit the final thing, i will let all of you know how everything will turn out.

So far, this is what I'm planning on doing:

-Introduction
-Proposed Games
-Support List for each Game [not dividing it into sub-categories; e.g. Support for Chaotix Missions in Heroes, another for Support for SStages in same game]
-Proof for each Support (using quotes; I asked all of you, I hope, in the past. IF not, let me know or I'll use them without your permission by accident!)
-Division Lists for all Categories
-Conclusion

Thanks, everyone.

[Thorn]

As recommended to me be Thorn, himself...

Aw, you're making me blush... and I'll blush a lot more if Rolken cans all these ideas and tells me, "What the hell were you doing, putting everyone up to this?"

I figure I'll put my last bit of bitching, suggested tweaking, and everything else here, since *points up* Rolken's getting word soon:

In the very first post, my 11"30 in the Eggman stage in Fighters was submitted before higher=better was added.   It should be 3"70.  The Total (best TAs combined, not single run which should be done separately) won't work right with Higher=Better, so take that into consideration.

I lost track of what is what, but if the Riders comp is for Missions, I support it.  If it's for Rings (outside of Missions), I don't.  I also support Rings for SAdv3 and Shadow, as well as more Heroes competition.

I've gotten ideas for a Freestyle Competition...

Spare it, the default works.  Remember that Freestyle divisions don't count for points.  If there's a lot of submissions open that are all similar (and for Fighters there would be one Freestyle entry for each normal one), then it's too much to submit for no credit.

If anyone has any advice with the actual approaching of Rolken with all of our ideas, PLEASE let me know...

Here's a tip:  Start with a competition suggestion that's easy to add and can't be argued against.  If you open with, say, SAdv3 Rings, you'll be taken seriously because the arguments against it are few and weak.  If you open with Shuffle, you'll likely get shot down before you present the rest of the ideas since there's so many problems with it that could be argued.

Good luck with this.  You've got the biggest topic on the site running, and that says a lot.  I still don't know how this topic gained so much support when so many similar topics failed, but what the hell, I'm all for it.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay, first, Thorn, do you mean that it should be lower=Better like all the others? If so, I changed your previous "11.30" to "3.70". Is that what you mean? If so, I need to make a new stat. So, then, will it be the time remaining? I kinda understood your comment about the Total but got a little confused but I'm sure I'll get it if you can answer the above.

Next thing: Yes, Riders is for Missions but not exclusively for that. It's also for Survival Race, Survival Battle and Tag. Yes, we had a discussion about that whole Ring thing and I scrapped it. I won't bother with Freestyle/Fighters. Thanks for your input.

And, thanks for the tip I'll keep it in mind. Also, thanks for sticking with me and not giving up on me. I appreciate your dedication and support. :)

Speaking of which, your name is added to the Support Lists on the second post.

[Groudon]

You still need to add magnum's Final Haunt and Last Way ring scores.  I re-posted them on the 3rd post of this page.

[Thorn]

Sorry for the delayed response, ks8.  I was online when you posted, but got distracted by another web site.

Okay, first, Thorn, do you mean that it should be lower=Better like all the others?

Well, making one level different kinda makes things more difficult.  Why not make it simple?  Sure, there's a little math to be done, but it's better than having one level throw off the standings.

[magnum12]

It seems I forgot about something that was discussed a long time ago. I think there were also plans for a Sonic Battle time division. (Ask sonicam about the details).

[KnucklesSonic8]

magnum12, sorry about that. Your Last Way and Final Haunt stats for Shadow are up. Hopefully I got things right. Also, I would like to participate in that Sonic Battle Time competition you plan, but, can you or "sonicam" gimme some more details (e.g - the mode you'd play in, etc.) cause I can start experimenting and see where we may have problems and stuff.

Also, guys, I can't guarantee I'll be using the PC that often since school is starting again. So, if it may seem like I'm taking a while to post, just keep posting anyway and I'll read as many as I can when i'm online.

Thorn, thanks for the clear-up. I think you're right about that. I'll get a new stat soon. I wrote one down recently, actually.

EDIT: Thorn, it's up. I think I did really well that time. I surprised myself, actually. Hopefully, I read the time right.

Shadow Jacky: I realize, also, it is a pain and I'm having second thoughts about it. But, I think RING Divisions is still a possibility and although it would be a "drag", think of all the other games where you need to go through the levels progressively instead of choosing one - it's the same case.

Anyway, I'm gonna make a chart for it (Rings, not Score) and I'll keep you posted if I can do it before I log off.


EDIT: SJ, it's up. I have stats from before so I'll add 'em. If you want, you can try and get some support but if it's too much of a hassle, you don't have to.

[Bilan]

SHM would be a redundant idea as it requires playing through every stage in sucession, what Im trying to say is, if you got to the end off Egg Fleet, took a hit and lost your 600 rings and ahd no lives left to restart, would YOU bother playing all the way through just to get back to there and inevitably get hit again?

As for the note abotu other games where you cant select a level and ahev to play ll the way through to get to that point, I cant think of a single one that isn't a ROM, and thus you can simply make a savestate at the beginning of every level

[KnucklesSonic8]

Just FTR, here are some of my best scores from Super Hard Mode before:

(I was so bored, I even did Tutorial - 12950; 55 Rings :P)

Seadside - 52940
Ocean - 91380
Grand - 90000 (On.the.dot!)
Power - 104830
Casino - 54490
BINGO - 47680
Rail - 30870
Bullet - 21800 (Got so fed up just ran right through.)
Frog - 58850
Lost - 51310
Hang - 62810
Mystic - 37780
Egg - 106970! (Whoa! By the way, it'll take a real master to keep all the rings in this whole stage right through.)
Final - 113900

Sonic Battle: magnum, I tried in Battle Mode, dunno if this is what you meant but I tried (all on Green Hill) :
3 minutes/Sonic - 17 pts
2 minutes/Sonic - 11 pts
2 minutes/Shadow - 17 pts
2 minutes/Amy - 12 pts.
5 minutes/Tails - 29 pts.
3 minutes/Cream - 11 pts.
2 minutes/Gamma - 8 pts.
2 minutes/Rouge - 8 pts. (She's my weakness; I'm beginning to see)

 This could make a good competition if this is what you had in mind.

I also have new SS Stats for Heroes and I got some stats for the Extra Chaotix missions to show my support.

EDIT: New stats are up. So, we goin' to scrap SHM proposals....unless, someone else supports it and has good arguments for keepng it?

Oh, also, magnum, I did Battle again and just in case that Time Battle wasn't what you meant I checked KO and Survival so it must be the Time Limit one you're referring to. Definitely must establish rules (should we allow players to use Emerl? Personally, I'm a little skeptical but I'm leaning towards the "it's not fair" statement). I'd love a reply soon.

EDIT: Some suggestions for rules before I go:

1. Should we allow the usage of the same character more than once? (Personally, leaning towards no.)
2. Rules/Settings would be (maybe): Rule - Time, Limited Time - Your Choice (2/3/5/10 all different divisions I guess), Tag - Off, Interval - 30sec (that's my default), Auto Handicap - Off, Com - Average
3. I'm guessing they can do it on any stage/arena they want, right?

[magnum12]

I don't remember all of the details, but I think time division uses challenge mode (like in score division) and you have to write down the time it took you to clear each stage. The only issue I can think of is if we should just use one level of difficulty (preferably level 2 which is medium??) or not since 10 characters X 5 stages X 3 levels= 150 entries.

[Thorn]

So, nobody's posted in a few days, which I'll assume means there's not much left to question (I hope it doesn't mean interest died).  Perhaps the time to present this is now, before TSC4 comes along and Rolken's busy again.  I mean, the rules are about 99% of the way finalized, and that 1% won't influence a "yes" or "no" answer.

Here's hoping that, at the least, the easy-to-integrate divisions make it.  SAdv3/Shadow Rings stand the highest chance of making it (if any do), Riders missions in a close second.  Here's hoping for some of the more obscure divisions, too.  Heroes Special Stages, and any Special Stages for that matter -- except for all 28 Sonic 3D Special Stages  -- would make a nice addition, Fighters would add some variety to the site in the same way Battle did, and Shuffle would... I don't know what to say here, it's just kind of an out-there game.

[F-Man]

There's still a little bit of stuff to do. Like convince knuckles_sonic8 that we won't include the Shuffle stages; and I would also like to take a last look at the mini-games that were and were not selected for competition, though that is far from necessary and I don't expect you guys to wait for me.

[Thorn]

That first point: I've given up trying.  After all, he set it all up, it's his decision.
That second point:  Look at the first post, a little ways down for the games that DID make it.  I can't be bothered to look up a full list and compare the unordered list of games to the full one (for what we removed), but here's what I remember:

Sonicola
Over the Bridge
Egg & the Chicken
Jump the Snake
Zero G Snap Shot
Over the Rainbow (this one was argued for a while)
Tractor Beam Tag (also argued)
Number Jump
Egg in Space
Shoddy Work
Bucket-O-Rings
Bomb Relay
Wrong Way Climb - Solo Player
Eggbot's Attack! (on team)
Stop the Train
Sonic Slot
Sonic Darts
Sonic Hi Lo

I think that's all of them... and I stand by all of the mini-game decisions.  Although if you've got a good argument, I'd buy it.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Well, F-Man, it's not like anyone proposed anything else with regard to Shuffle recently. I'm open to all opinions since I'm currently formulating the final PM.

[Thorn]

Um, do we get to see it in progress?  I mean, we all have a right to know what's going on.

[Shadow Jacky]

FIANLLY BACK!

so anyway I wasn't able to get on this whole site for over a week, but I'm on right now and I'm doing as much as I can before the site decides I cant come back again.

About SHM in HEROES...HELL NO!  nothing good will come of this.  I did those scores just for fun and I erased them off of my notebook to not remind me of how bad it was to do them.  Most of the things that happens in SHM is just clumsy.  It may be the same as in older games without level select (although its getting better with emulators and recent 2-D games and some of the older ones with cheats), its not entirely the same and that example by RPG is a good one.  Also with score, its a real pain as since theres no time limit, the best score within a stage is to litterally get every ring, every enemy, the best combo in an area, hitting all background items, all item boxes, all checkpoints, and all trick rings (like that will ever happen...)

Its too big of a hassle compared to regular SAing with a timer that will either help or hurt you depending on your route. 

Now, I did these 2 weeks ago and its abuot time these got put up...

Chaotix Extra:

Casino Park: 48190
Bingo Highway: 45810
Bullet Station: 50240
Lost Jungle: 51160
Hang Castle: 41010
Mystic Mansion: 42130
Final Fortress: 91200

thats it from me...until whenever!

[Groudon]

So what's the deal with Sonic the Fighters rules?

[KnucklesSonic8]

Okay everyone! I'm pleased to announce I'm 90% done the PM. Just gotta finish Riders and SADV3 sections and I'm done! Should I post it here when I'm done?

Oh and don't worry SJ, SHM will not be included.

Thorn (and anyone else who wants to know), I didn't include quotes for the message is long enough as it is. I put in a message stating he can refer to the quotes on his spare time or request that I send them to him.

I think I formulated it really well. The game order is: STH, Riders, ADV3, Heroes, Fighters, Shuffle.

[Groudon]

So what are the Fighters rules?

[KnucklesSonic8]

Quote:
"Special Rules:
-You are allowed to use Hyper Mode as many times as you like.
-All submissions and records must be made on Normal Difficulty only.
-All options must be left to their defaults for your times to count. This includes 'Barrier: 5', 'Hyper Mode: On', 'Automatic: Off', 'Damage: Low', 'Match Time: 30', 'Energy Max: Normal', and 'Match Count: 2'. Changing any will result in a void submission.
-If you become Super Sonic on the last level, your final clear time can count towards the "All [Sonic]" category."

There you go, Groudon.
_________

Yeah, magnum, so I checked Challenge Mode to see if the time thing would still work and it could since it totally slipped my mind that the battle time is shown at the end of each match. This could work!

Divisions would probably be, obviously divided by character ( 10 ) then by Level of Difficulty ( 3 different levels) and then by stages ( 5 per level ). So:

3 Levels * 5 Stages = 15 divisions per character * 10 characters = 150 Divisions in Total.

As far as Headers go, Time would obviously suit the Divisions. Here are a few subs:

Sonic - Stage 1, Level 1 - 2:10
Sonic - Stage 2, Level 1 - 1:53
Sonic - Stage 3, Level 1 - 1:47
Sonic - Stage 4, Level 1 - 1:02
Sonic - Stage 5, Level 1 - 1:20
Sonic - Stage 1, Level 2 - 2:17
Sonic - Stage 2, Level 2 - 1:26
Sonic - Stage 3, Level 2 - 1:12
Sonic - Stage 4, Level 2 - 2:10
Sonic - Stage 5, Level 2 - 1:58
Emerl - Stage 1, Level 1 - 0:36
Emerl - Stage 2, Level 1 - 0:41
Emerl - Stage 3, Level 1 - 0:36
Emerl - Stage 4, Level 1 - 1:14
Emerl - Stage 5, Level 1 - 0:39
Emerl - Stage 1, Level 3 - 0:32

Question: Should we allow the use of Emerl? After all, using Combo Cards wouldn't be much of a competition, am I right but maybe we could still do it since it's Time? What do you think? Anyone?
Should I include this in the final PM?! I'm not sure...

[Groudon]

Quote:
"Special Rules:
-You are allowed to use Hyper Mode as many times as you like.
-All submissions and records must be made on Normal Difficulty only.
-All options must be left to their defaults for your times to count. This includes 'Barrier: 5', 'Hyper Mode: On', 'Automatic: Off', 'Damage: Low', 'Match Time: 30', 'Energy Max: Normal', and 'Match Count: 2'. Changing any will result in a void submission.
-If you become Super Sonic on the last level, your final clear time can count towards the "All [Sonic]" category."

There you go, Groudon.

Thanks.  Right after I posted, I tried the first stage as Sonic and got (I think) 46.88.  At least I think that's what I got.

[KnucklesSonic8]

So, Groudon. What do you think about the Battle proposals? Should I include them?

Should I post the final PM here? What do you think - you're the only one that posts ever so often.

EDIT: I made a mistake. I still have one part of Heroes and one part of Shuffle to do as well.

[Groudon]

You can include those Sonic Battle ones if you want, since I don't have the game.

And you can post the final PM here.  Anything to get the charts ready is fine by me.

[magnum12]

Quote:
Question: Should we allow the use of Emerl? After all, using Combo Cards wouldn't be much of a competition, am I right but maybe we could still do it since it's Time? What do you think? Anyone?
Should I include this in the final PM?! I'm not sure...

I think Emerl should be allowed. Trust me, there are faster ways to KO people than the combo card.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Thanks magnum. I forgot to post that I decided to go through with it even before you posted.
Here's an update:

To-Do:
-Sonic Heroes: Description of Proposal (SS)
-Sonic Heroes: Description of Proposal (Chaotix/Extra)
-Sonic Shuffle: Description of Game Proposals
-Sonic Riders: Special Rules (All)
-Sonic Battle: Description of Proposal (Times)

I am so close, I will finish it today!
Correction: I DID Finish!!!!

UPDATE: Only Battle remains!! Get ready everyone for the post!
UPDATE: Battle is now finished - it was kinda short though  since this is a fairly new proposal and it's hard to say so much on it.

Everyone, I'll be posting this shortly. Hopefully, I can get some feedback - any will do so I know if everything's ready for the final delivery. Hopefully, "you know who" won't spoil the message for himself so let's do this quick, everyone!