Even the OLD new sonic games suck


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Offline Rolken

Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« on: October 15, 2006, 09:15:18 PM »
Watch and weep. They've somehow managed to edit Sonic 1 GBA to bring it up to date with the rest of the series, adding such features as a crappy framerate and glitchy broken physics. And it's supposedly 95% complete. Heavens help us.



Addendum: Please, no one support this kind of shameless abuse of Sonic. Sega has constantly been pushing the bar in the degree of greed and apathy towards quality with which they "develop" their games, and at some point there has to be something said against it. If it remains in the current state, I do not intend to create rankings for it; to have such a mockery of decent Sonic games on our rankings is abominable. There's plenty of fan-made Sonic 1 hacks out there with spindashing that are of far better quality.

Addendum pt2: It's worth noting that the rape doesn't end with destroying the physics and framerate. There was a video on cult (toward the end) of the GHZ boss, which has been completely nerfed; the boss no longer swings in sync with his movements, so it's now safe to just stand on the platforms and attack when Eggman approaches for the first four swings or so. And in another trick from the Sonic next-gen book, Sonic falls through a platform at one point. Totally unacceptable.
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Offline Groudon

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2006, 09:17:41 PM »
Well, hopefully they fix those problems before they finish the other supposed 5%.

Offline Thorn

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2006, 09:58:24 PM »
I support your cause, Rolko.  It's a toned-down Sonic Jam copy of Sonic 1.
*plays Sonic 1 Megamix again*
God, I can't wait for this to be finished.  You weren't kidding, the hackers are better at it.  It's a shame, really.
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Offline Taco

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 03:23:19 AM »
I guess I wont be competing in Sonic 1 after all :(


Offline X-5

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 09:01:00 AM »
I agree that looks terrible, the slow bounce speed sucks.

Offline Crowbar

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 02:10:52 PM »
Guys, I don't think it's physics. It's slowdown. Look at the timer.

Still inexcusable, but not quite as baffling.

Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 04:43:26 PM »
I guess I wont be competing in Sonic 1 after all :(
Get a rom you dolt. Or Mega Collection. Or use eBay. Or something. I'd give you mine but I like my original copy kthx. :(

Also Rolk you forgot to mention the failure to keep the viewing volume THE SAME SIZE (or similar). You can see the difference between these two shots, just by how much of the loop is viewed.

Original Version (Shot taken by me in Gens)


GBA Version (Courtesy of SEGA)
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Offline Blitz

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 06:44:10 PM »
Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp. And Metal Sonic has it lucky. EVERY TIME I GET A GOOD RUN ON RED MOUNTAIN TAILS GRABS A STUPID ROCKET (I have the DC version. I gotta get SA2B and try the stuff SM does) The good old sonic were kinda fun. I remember the first day i tried out debug mode. That was 1 month ago. And the green hill zone was awesome. Stupid Nintendo, messing Sega games up with thier ideas, while having the power of sonic to make up for it.

Offline Bilan

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 06:44:50 PM »
SM is a DC Player, not GC
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Offline General Throatstomper

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 06:51:10 PM »
Nintendo doesn't affect the way Sonic games are made. Sonic games saw a steady decline after the release of Sonic & Knuckles, even though it can be argued that the Adventure series games were well received in their time. When the games were, you know, on Sega's consoles.

Oh and for someone with a picture of Silver as their avatar, you have no right to ridicule (new) Sonic Team.

In closing, get off my internet.


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Offline magnum12

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 07:43:08 PM »
All throughout this year, a trend of horrifying remakes of original classics has been born. First we have Bomerman Act Zero, an insult to everything good about Bomberman. Then we have the new Bubble Bobble, a remake full of bugs, including one in which the level 30 boss doesn't appear, making it impossible to get past level 30 (out of 100). Will this be the third strike? Only time will tell. On the bright side, at least you're not being forced to play MMX6. That right there is a true abomination, consisting of level design so horrible that some stages (particullary the Gate stages) are impossible to clear unless you use a specific form, and bosses in which the intended weakness doesn't work because they failed to play test its lair.
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Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 07:43:55 PM »
When you said crappy frame rate you weren't joking.
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Offline Rolken

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2006, 08:40:56 PM »
Guys, I don't think it's physics. It's slowdown. Look at the timer.

It's both. When Sonic reorients while "running" in the air he jolts around slightly, and his interaction with all the level objects is wonky, culminating with the straight-from-Advance-3 death from pushing against a moving block.

As for the screen size shrinkage, it's unfortunate, but I'm more willing to forgive that as something has to go when you reduce the screen size from 320x224 to 240x160 and the only alternative is to create new art for the entire game.

Edit-
All throughout this year, a trend of horrifying remakes of original classics has been born. [etc]
Wow, that's awful. I heard about Bomberman, but I didn't know about the other, even worse bastardizations.

Edit 2- stuff merged into FP.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 08:58:15 PM by Rolken »
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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2006, 09:03:15 PM »
All I can say is the final product had better make that 5% count.
I don't want to see this opportunity for a good port go bad.
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Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2006, 09:10:58 PM »
All I can say is the final product had better make that 5% count.
I don't want to see this opportunity for a good port go bad.
I agree.
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Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 12:08:14 AM »
One-liner :(

Oh God, I just saw the video. SOMEBODY STOP IT. YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE ALL OF HIM. D:

Yeah, it's (more) official. Sonic 1 on Genesis has about 10,000,000 points better than "Sonic the Hedgehog 'Genesis.'"
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Offline CosmicFalcon

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2006, 04:15:00 AM »
This is the kind of quality I'd expect from the Sonic 1 mobile handset port. As in from what little I've seen, that's how the phone game appears to play lol.
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Offline eggFL

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2006, 06:25:35 AM »
We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.

It's almost definitely going to be sped up to normal for the final release. I just don't see it being released as it is.

Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.

Rockman X6 was horrible. (Rockman X7 would have worked as well) Although it wasn't so much that the final stages were basically impossible in certain forms, so much that you couldn't quit a level without getting a game over. (and since game over had no penalty, extra lives were a liability) And there's also the laughable enemy spriting.

Quote
Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp.

Yea! Plus the framerate was WAY too high.

Offline Upthorn

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2006, 06:46:49 AM »
We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.
You missed the point.

Quote from: eggFL
It's almost definitely going to be sped up to normal for the final release. I just don't see it being released as it is.
lol

Quote from: eggFL
Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
lolwut

Quote from: eggFL
Rockman X6 was horrible. (Rockman X7 would have worked as well) Although it wasn't so much that the final stages were basically impossible in certain forms, so much that you couldn't quit a level without getting a game over. (and since game over had no penalty, extra lives were a liability) And there's also the laughable enemy spriting.
wut

Quote from: eggFL
Quote
Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp.

Yea! Plus the framerate was WAY too high.
lolwut
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Offline Rolken

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2006, 06:48:07 AM »
... Dude.

We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.
One person took offense to the screen size. There's 18 comments here. That's hardly a commotion.

Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
No. You are wrong. I can say that with absolute certainty despite never having even laid eyes on the thing, simply because everyone hates it. There's one 70% "ok this game is tolerable" review out of *37*. Games with nothing wrong are not universally hated.

Seriously, man.
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Offline douglas

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2006, 07:41:20 AM »
Can't say I'm surprised.  Sonic Team's attitude to continued sales of old-skool multipacks and whatnot and poor reception to their current games has always ignore the latter and continue to whore off the former, rather than make any attempt to understand why the originals are so good and use that to make good new games.  It's a shame because given the coverage of Sonic 06 there's clearly still a market for Sonic, if only they could make a game that was halfway decent.

However, if (when) they release this turdfest, it'll at least be interesting to see what ridiculous defence Egg will come up with for it.  I'm taking a book; current favourite is "Pretend flaws don't exist" at evens, with "Patronise anyone who dislikes the game" at 2-1 and "Aggressively denounce non-fanboys" at 3-1.  Outside punt of "This shows you old-skool was rubbish so the new games must be awesome" at 10-1.  Any takers?
This topic has now been officially won by me.  Never mind, you might do better next time!
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Offline Crowbar

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2006, 10:27:54 AM »
I put my foot in his mouth before he can say a damn thing: dead cert.

Offline magnum12

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2006, 12:37:58 PM »
Although 2006 is the year of remakes as I said earlier, to be honest it actually started out on a positive note with the release to Maverick Hunter X and MM: Powered up, two excellent remakes for the PSP. Then the other abominations were released. Here's to hoping this new Sonic remake actually turns out good in the end.
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Offline Bilan

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2006, 12:40:21 PM »
for the PSP.

That completely murdered your post.

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Offline Crowbar

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2006, 02:26:32 PM »
OH MY GOD RPG YOUR AVATAR IS FUCKING AWESOME HOLY FUCKING JESUS SHIT

Offline Groudon

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2006, 02:31:13 PM »
second'd

Offline Blitz

Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2006, 05:54:41 PM »
I meant SA2 sorry

Offline Marth

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2006, 08:25:49 PM »
Addendum: Please, no one support this kind of shameless abuse of Sonic. Sega has constantly been pushing the bar in the degree of greed and apathy towards quality with which they "develop" their games, and at some point there has to be something said against it. If it remains in the current state, I do not intend to create rankings for it; to have such a mockery of decent Sonic games on our rankings is abominable. There's plenty of fan-made Sonic 1 hacks out there with spindashing that are of far better quality.
But it won't matter. Thousands of angry Sonic fans signed petitions to get rid of the 4Kids actors, but did anything happen? No. Those games were very successful (at least in sales).
SEGA can do one stupid thing after another, but people will still buy their games,
either because there's no choice, or because they're kids who want the games because
they have "characters from sonic x" in them. But I agree that... how do I describe it?...
it kind of feels good to bash badly-made games and do extreme and even ridiculous things about them, even if few people know (like my plans to redo some of Riders's acting).

SilvertheAlmighty:  Off-topic, but it's true that Tails can get annoying. I use Metal Sonic for
a few stages, including Sky Deck, because Tails attacks planes to make Sonic float up a bit,
and Lost World, because he randomly presses the 3 switches to change the camera.
My complaint about the graphics is that they don't come close to GameCube quality.
It's a huge leap over the Dreamcast version in some ways, but I would've expected a perfect framerate,
consistent texture quality, and waaaaay more polygons. And waaaaaaaaaaaay better draw distance.
I don't know what you mean by "sharp", though. Polygony, or too much flicker? (Both are true.)

eggFL: 1.  Yeah, the change in screen size was to be expected. Or could it have been
crunched in a bit to just get more pixelated? (If that had happened, it would've looked really bad.
I just tried it, and it makes everything a bit blobby. Also, the zeros all turn into Ds. "TIME D:D1")
2. But GBA is weaker than Genesis! (When SEGA makes the GBA games, that is.) It'd be impossible!
3. Bomberman Act Zero is good because it's on XB360, right?
4. I'm not sure what you meant about SADX's framerate. I thought you said you hadn't seen DX.
Anyway, some people did think the framerate was too high, but there are many more complaints
about how it manages to keep chopping when it's not even displaying much of anything.

douglas: I thought they got good sales on everything. If not, why is Sonic Heroes a
Player's Choice and Platinum Hit, and why did Sonic Riders get into Nintendo Power's sales lists?
Anyway, they should release big collections (I liked Gems, but they could've done better- like
by putting in Chaotix, although I'm already aware that they can't emulate anything),
and good remakes (lots of stuff added, nothing removed, maybe some beta content),
and good new games (by actually listening to the fans for once, or even just hiring some guy
at minimum wage to spend a few hours testing their games and find the obvious flaws).
Just find a good balance that gives most of your old games to all the players at a good price,
and also delivers great new games to everyone- including Nintendo players. How hard can it be?
They haven't done too terribly so far, but they've made a ton of stupid decisions, and
I can't even begin to explain how ridiculously easy it would be to fix the problems.
Oh, and I agree about them not trying to see what people liked about games.
But this will need a whole new thread if we're (or I'm) to complain much more.
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Offline yse

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2006, 08:33:05 PM »
it'll at least be interesting to see what ridiculous defence Egg will come up with for it.  I'm taking a book; ... with "Patronise anyone who dislikes the game" at 2-1

That's good odds! $20 on that.

I suggest you add a couple, though:

"Better than Bomberman Act Zero" at 7-2
"Realise what a fool I've been" at 100k-1

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Offline General Throatstomper

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Re: Even the OLD new sonic games suck
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2006, 09:11:08 PM »
Quote from: Marth
Anyway, they should release big collections (I liked Gems, but they could've done better- like by putting in Chaotix, although I'm already aware that they can't emulate anything),and good remakes (lots of stuff added, nothing removed, maybe some beta content), and good new games (by actually listening to the fans for once, or even just hiring some guy at minimum wage to spend a few hours testing their games and find the obvious flaws).

They tried that out with Shadow, remember?

As far as I'm concerned, Sega is a perfect example of a smart business. It lures customers in with good products, and then little by little makes them worse, but not so much that people stop buying them alltogether. Then, it appeals to a younger market, cutting out its original fanbase, who still buy the products in the hope of finding a diamond in the rough. The younger market continues to buy all products having to do with the brand name, and the older market limits its spending to select products. Then, Sega shells out low-quality and easy to produce products that resemble the original, appealing to the awkward middle ground between its two userbases, eventually selling both out for an even younger demographic. This continues until the inevitable meteor strike.

"But I'll still get '06 and Secret Rings anyways".

From a business standpoint, Sega is a genius. From a personal standpoint, they're ruthless.


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