Sonic CD RA Rules Change


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Your opinion on the new ruling:

Approve
16 (45.7%)
Disapprove
17 (48.6%)
Don't know enough to say anything
2 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 35

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Offline SpinDashMaster

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Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« on: May 15, 2012, 01:01:35 AM »
Current Rule:

Rings Divisions
* The game's Time Attack mode is to be used for setting records.

Proposed Rule:
(Nothing) (Rings stats can be obtained in normal gameplay)

Post your approval or disapproval here and discuss.

Offline Aitamen

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 07:48:37 PM »
An awesome rule change, methinks.  This wouldn't invalidate current charts (Right?), and opens the other two parts of the level up to RAing... and will probably get me back into the game before too long.

Kinda related, were Starting Time Zones times ever finalized?  I thought they were but I didn't see a real word from a mod...

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 08:51:24 PM »
It wouldn't invalidate current ring chart submissions, no, which is always nice with a new rule~
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Offline SpinDashMaster

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 12:15:52 AM »
Quote from: Aitamen
Kinda related, were Starting Time Zones times ever finalized?  I thought they were but I didn't see a real word from a mod...

I'll look into this. For now only submit stats with a starting point in the present.

Offline Antronach

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 12:12:48 AM »
Aren't the ring layouts for each act shared between each timezone? Still, I up for more challenges.
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Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 02:04:06 AM »
Sort of, yes. The location of the rings/monitors is constant across all four time zones, BUT, due to the level geography changing around, not all rings are accessible in every time zone.
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Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 09:10:26 PM »
Okay, I'm definitely neutral in consideration for this rule. There is a slight problem, though. This will give emu players a giant advantage, since they can use save states. Console players(Sega CD and SGC) would have a hell of a difficult time with this because they'd have to start Act I and play through it EVERY time in order to start Act II in a different time. That is a major downside, in my opinion, seeing as I am a console player myself. However, the point of RA is entirely about getting as many rings as you can without getting rings twice(happens in SADX with the bells), so whatever happens to this rule is for the best, and I won't choose sides.

Offline DBG

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 10:23:43 PM »
Okay, I'm definitely neutral in consideration for this rule. There is a slight problem, though. This will give emu players a giant advantage, since they can use save states. Console players(Sega CD and SGC) would have a hell of a difficult time with this because they'd have to start Act I and play through it EVERY time in order to start Act II in a different time. That is a major downside, in my opinion, seeing as I am a console player myself. However, the point of RA is entirely about getting as many rings as you can without getting rings twice(happens in SADX with the bells), so whatever happens to this rule is for the best, and I won't choose sides.

Just thought I'd remind you of something:

Quote from: Competition Rules
* Gamesharks, similar cheat devices, "turbo" or "autofire" features of controllers, and ROM save states must not be used, nor any functions on the emulator, such as slowing down the speed of the game.
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Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 11:22:03 PM »
Quote from: Competition Rules
* Gamesharks, similar cheat devices, "turbo" or "autofire" features of controllers, and ROM save states must not be used, nor any functions on the emulator, such as slowing down the speed of the game.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know that, but wouldn't some people use it to start at the end of Act I, just before the sign post? Hm... I never knew that even that was violating the rules. I'll take note of that

Quote
Well, in both versions of Sonic CD, there is a way to access level select, which allows you to start any act in any time zone, which eliminates that problem (although this is far easier to access in CD 11 than CD 93 :P). Basically, RAing Sonic CD would begin with you choosing a favorable time zone to start in from level select, and warping as needed.

Naturally, I suspect you aren't very familiar with the game, so I can see why you said what you said.

Yes, you are correct that I am not familiar with the game, but I know about the accessibility of the level select. Though, from what I've been told by someone who is familiar with the game that time travelling from the level select screen sends you back to the title screen. Not sure about anything at this point, though...

Offline Parax

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2012, 11:23:48 PM »
Making a save state between acts is perfectly fine as long as the state is from before the run starts. People do that in S3&K all the time to reduce tedium in starting act 2s with elemental shields.

Offline Aitamen

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 05:56:52 AM »
Quote from: Aitamen
Kinda related, were Starting Time Zones times ever finalized?  I thought they were but I didn't see a real word from a mod...

I'll look into this. For now only submit stats with a starting point in the present.

I meant for TA.  Since time-traveling from level-select resets you, we were going to have all-times TA charts, I thought it was finalized and waiting for GS or someone to actually chart them, but I might've been wrong and was asking for a status update...

And yeah, there are emu advantages all over the place, we've never seen that as reason to disallow things before.  And yes, save-stating before a run is legal, just not *during* a run.  If I had to trigger various glitches or obtain shields in S3&K before each run... *shudder*

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 04:37:40 PM »
Quote from: Aitamen
Kinda related, were Starting Time Zones times ever finalized?  I thought they were but I didn't see a real word from a mod...

I'll look into this. For now only submit stats with a starting point in the present.

Sorry but I have to point out in SCD11 we can start in any time zone we want when raing. I don't see why we can't do this in SCD93 O_o

Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 01:43:55 AM »

And yeah, there are emu advantages all over the place, we've never seen that as reason to disallow things before.  And yes, save-stating before a run is legal, just not *during* a run.  If I had to trigger various glitches or obtain shields in S3&K before each run... *shudder*
[/quote]

I was more saying that it's an argument as to why people would prefer it not become a rule, because of being incredibly tedious. Of course doing that in other runs would be fine, but this one is a little too long for console users, ya know? That means that some may complain or use it as an argument. Like I said, since it's not as easily backed as other arguments, I'm neutral. I moreso just wanna point out that some people may have this argument.

Offline bertin

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 02:04:51 AM »
Sorry but I have to point out in SCD11 we can start in any time zone we want when raing. I don't see why we can't do this in SCD93 O_o

You do know that if you time travel at all in Sonic CD 93 from level select you get sent to the main menu right? It would be better to do what we were going to do from the beginning and that's split them all into charts since you can't time travel anyway.

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 05:15:24 AM »
No because I haven't played much of the old version, just the new one. I was going to wait till I finished my 11 charts before I went back to playing the old version again.

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 05:34:33 AM »
Just throwing in my thoughts, but if we had charts for starting in each time zone for Times/Score/Rings for each act, I would definitely play more original SCD~

Especially as it's way less hassle to compete on than the fucking remake.
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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 05:39:27 AM »
Just going to throw this in here: http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=4784.msg51561#msg51561

From that topic, sounds like it is going to happen and many people want that (I also would play more SCD if this happened).

Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 03:28:19 PM »
I agree with RPG. That way, we can compromise the rule so that everyone is perfectly fine. I'm not sure if it's work for TA, but definitely RA(I'm slightly unclear on it, obviously due to laziness and unfamiliarity about the game itself). I DEMAND A RE-POLLING! DX< Lol

Offline SpanielWare

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2012, 05:23:22 PM »
More people have disapproved than approved? Wow.
I'm personally for this rule change!
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Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2012, 09:30:25 PM »
Daniel, it'd be more useful to add charts for Past, present, and future of each level for RA so that way you don't have to deal with level select, console players won't complain about emu players using save states before the RA runs, etc. It'd be the best possible outcome, in my opinion. We get the rule changed, AND no one will complain.

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2012, 02:41:53 AM »
Times and Score could also do with a chart for each act, except act 3's, beginning in Past, Present, and either Good Future or Bad Future too :P

The reason for this is Good Future and Bad Future are literally identical, the only difference between the two is BF has badniks and GF doesn't. Whether or not that makes it worth tracking both is up for debate I guess?
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Offline arcfx1985

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2012, 10:18:20 AM »
Approve

Leave the starting time zone as a user option - It will add a bit more strategy into the mix, such as figuring out which time is optimal for the start of a run (similar to finding optimal starting points in S3&K, like right before a huge wallzip).

As for level select sending you back, I have a...half-hearted solution: TA the acts that come prior to the ones you wish to RA? I don't know how that will go over, but that's what I usually do.
Yeah, emus have it made for setting up levels. Doesn't CD 2011 have a save feature that allows you to reset from the exact act you were on?

Overall, I don't think these issues should prevent the rule change.

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2012, 10:41:16 AM »
It does, but that doesn't make it particularly useful; it autosaves at the end of every level.

oh and you only have 4 save slots, even on the PC version.
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Offline Aitamen

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2012, 10:43:05 PM »
It does, but that doesn't make it particularly useful; it autosaves at the end of every level.

oh and you only have 4 save slots, even on the PC version.
Aren't they actually files, though?  Couldn't you just set them to read-only and make it so only the one you currently want to play is loaded by the game by re-naming them so it can't see them?

I don't know, never played the PC version...

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2012, 05:30:45 AM »
I don't know, but it's possible, however tedious, that you could get a savefile for each act and timezone, and hot swap them around as needed. You'd still have to put up with the God awful timer bug though.
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Offline bertin

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2012, 05:39:52 AM »
In my opinion, Time Attack can still be used for Times, Scores and Rings for Present when playing Act 1 and 2 of stages and Bad Future for Act 3 of stages and just use Level Select for everything else.

Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2012, 05:43:52 AM »
^That.

And if Level Select causes problems because it boots you back out to the main menu when you time travel, easy solution: no time travelling.

So the charts would end up as:

Times/Rings/Score

PP1 - Past
PP1 - Present
PP1 - Bad Future
PP1 - Good Future

so on and so forth.

Also just to reemphasise, I, and probably a bunch of others too, would compete on the original SCD again if the charts were expanded.
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Offline Gpro

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2012, 10:02:45 AM »
Actually, I don't know if TA or SA should also be put into different Time Zones, or at least as of yet. I think they shouls stay the way they are, but bertin and RPG have the right idea, essentially, and I think people will like that

Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2012, 12:52:41 PM »
Also just to reemphasise, I, and probably a bunch of others too, would compete on the original SCD again if the charts were expanded.


Offline Bilan

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Re: Sonic CD RA Rules Change
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2012, 12:57:23 PM »
If we are updating the rules/charts to allow for RAing in each time zone, there is no reason to not also expand this to Times and Score. The level layout changes enough each time that it is sufficiently different.

Besides, I was under the impression that this was an idea (IE each time zone for T/R/S) that was decided upon long ago, yet not implemented yet.
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